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  1. #76
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    He should be the Singularity. The perfect blend of man and not machine but technology.

    Now, how they visually display that I haven't totally hammered down. My main issues would be sleekness and being attractive enough to plausibly maintain love interests.

    If he's just going to be a lonely hermit that lacks the ability to "interact", then I have no desire to read that. He doesn't have to be a monster. He should still be able to sleep naturally. To eat naturally. He should have the advantage of both parts of himself.

    I should want to be him.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    He should be the Singularity. The perfect blend of man and not machine but technology.

    Now, how they visually display that I haven't totally hammered down. My main issues would be sleekness and being attractive enough to plausibly maintain love interests.

    If he's just going to be a lonely hermit that lacks the ability to "interact", then I have no desire to read that. He doesn't have to be a monster. He should still be able to sleep naturally. To eat naturally. He should have the advantage of both parts of himself.

    I should want to be him.
    Your right Technology would be a better/more progressive term to use where Cyborg is concern. As opposed to the term machine. Hadn't considered it before but you are correct.

    I also agree with you about the character maintaining his human elements of sleeping and eating. These where both things he did when he was originally created and it helped in allowing readers to still relate to him. To show that they can be him. The MAN aspect of the character is what is most vital to making him thrive.I feel that the YJ interruption of the character will allow him to do all the things you have mentioned here and I really really hope DC adapts these concepts onto Cyborg in the books. If they do so I will be first in line to purchase the book.

    Great post Iconic.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Eh...I think having Cyborg to be able to switch back and forth from Human to Cyborg would be a mistake.

    The key story to the character is being somewhat disfigured and part machine. That's the base of what makes the character Iconic.
    It depends at what point in time the subject becomes a cyborg. One thing I liked about the Teen Titans Go version of Vic is that he did not see his cybernetics as a handicap. I prefer Goofball Cyborg to that of Angsty Cyborg in this case.

  4. #79
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    Same. After seeing man/machine angst so much in the last couple of comic runs, I miss seeing a version of him thats light hearted and can be like a bog bro to the team.

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Cyborg could so easily be a wish fulfillment character. I would love to be a cyborg if the circumstances were similar to the Walker/Reis run. Being able to change back into a regular looking human but still having all the ridiculous powers (plus looking super cool as Reis’ version of Cyborg). Not having to worry about your weak human body breaking down over the years.

  6. #81
    Mighty Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Cyborg could so easily be a wish fulfillment character. I would love to be a cyborg if the circumstances were similar to the Walker/Reis run. Being able to change back into a regular looking human but still having all the ridiculous powers (plus looking super cool as Reisí version of Cyborg). Not having to worry about your weak human body breaking down over the years.
    Yeah I agree with but they are in love with the "Bulky Robocop style design" but I guess we have to be thankful at least they are slimming him down and the young justice version at least looks to be the most human version in awhile

    cyborg.jpg

    Cyborg 1.jpg

    I mean gradually over time Cyborg choose to upgrade his real body parts to cybernetics is more interesting than "Tragedy porn" that is presented.Cyborg willing giving up his real parts to become more effective hero but slowly losing his humanity is a better approach I think.

  7. #82
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    I don’t understand why he NEEDS to be a wish-fulfillment character?
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

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  8. #83
    Mighty Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    I don’t understand why he NEEDS to be a wish-fulfillment character?
    He doesn't NEED to be a wish fulfillment character he CAN be a wish-fulfillment character. It just a different direction most of Cyborg history has dedicated to how much it kinda sucks being Cyborg, How about focus on how great it could to be Cyborg. You wouldn't love have a computer in your brain and you could just close your eyes be able to connect to internet? Wouldn't you love to have cybernetics that you made run faster, be stronger or see better? Wouldn't love to live longer with less trouble and sickness? If told you had to give your body and look like Cyborg you might say no. If I told you would look exactly like yourself and the downside are minor you might say yes.

    Cyborg can be wish fulfilment and being more human like in appearance doesn't get rid of the I am man or machine aspect. Ghost in the Shell manga dealing with Cyborg covers the topic "what makes you human" with Cyborgs who look mostly human and it does well. Some people like physical tragedy aspect of the character I personally think there is only so far you can go with aspect. I like Cyborg might be the future of humanity and technological singularity angle. Since they keep pushing him to forefront as important hero and he is few one of major african american characters yeah some of us would rather the wish fulfilment route. You want to be Batman,You want to be Flash,You want to be Green Lantern, You want to be Superman or Wonder Woman, But Hey it sucks to be Cyborg. If they are keeping him as side player in Titans I fine with approach they are taking with him, I think you are pushing him as major hero,a solo properties one of the big guns then wish fulfilment is an better angle.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    It depends at what point in time the subject becomes a cyborg. One thing I liked about the Teen Titans Go version of Vic is that he did not see his cybernetics as a handicap. I prefer Goofball Cyborg to that of Angsty Cyborg in this case.
    The Cyborg in the first/original New Teen Titans was more balanced with his emotions. His relationship with Beast Boy and the rest of the Titans brought that out. He could still be "funny" especially if his design from YJ is adapted. But there were times when he also dealt with his handicap as well or moments like a real human were he felt down because there where things he couldn't experience anymore . I don't think a long time versions of Teen Titans Go version of Cyborg in the books could or would last. Most joke characters get treated just like that....a joke. They don't really progress or grow.

    I think DC could manage to have a Cyborg who balanced like they had in the past. To me at least it would be a better route to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Cyborg could so easily be a wish fulfillment character. I would love to be a cyborg if the circumstances were similar to the Walker/Reis run. Being able to change back into a regular looking human but still having all the ridiculous powers (plus looking super cool as Reis’ version of Cyborg). Not having to worry about your weak human body breaking down over the years.
    I think the turning human part cut's the legs from under the character. The Roots of what made Cyborg popular is his original story of a young man/athlete becoming disabled and then having Cybernetics forced on him to save his life. If the character can switch back and forth who the character is becomes lost and he might as well be a whole new character. Which is what he pretty much was since the 52 started. However, the added downside to that is that no one could agree on what direction to take him in. The character had no purpose and for the most part was empty.

    Cyborg doesn't need to be Boxy the Robot. But I do feel a slight outward deformity is need for the concepts he was built on to stay in tact and for him not to be a new character all together. Cyborg share's aspect in origin/story that resemble that of the Thing or Nightcrawler.

    Edit:

    Just my opinion but I think the ideal Cyborg would be one that struggles with his handicap at times but also acknowledges and enjoys other aspects of it. To me that would make the character the most interesting to read about on-going.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 01-29-2019 at 04:06 AM.
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  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Sounds like the Doom Patrol show has a pretty good version of Cyborg.

    https://www.cbr.com/doom-patrol-robo...g-relatioship/

    This Cyborg is more developed than previous incarnations of the character. This Victor Stone is confident in his own skin, a deviation from the versions from Young Justice, Justice League, or Teen Titans, who experiences a great deal of angst over his transformation. The Doom Patrol Cyborg, on the other hand, has been working as a solo superhero, protecting the streets of Detroit, with is father Silas (Phil Morris) operating as his "man in the chair." He's well-adjusted, to the point that even when Mr. Nobody (Alan Tudyk) tries to use the traumatic memories of his origin to torment him, Cyborg is barely fazed.
    Last edited by Robotman; 03-03-2019 at 10:15 PM.

  11. #86
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Do you think Cyborg would benefit from being taken in a more techno-organic direction?
    Duke's a fine character, you guys are just hungry... (respect thread)

    John Stewart is my Lantern.

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  12. #87
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Do you think Cyborg would benefit from being taken in a more techno-organic direction?
    Absolutely. It seems as that would be the logical next evolution of the character as the Reis design showed.

    With regards to his current design, I'd love to know the breakdown of his physical makeup. What are the black parts? Is there skin under there. Can he adjust the silver parts of himself? Is he naked?

  13. #88
    Mighty Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Do you think Cyborg would benefit from being taken in a more techno-organic direction?
    Some what it would help but people have different ideas of what Cyborg is some people see him as permanent tragedy and physical disfigurement is parts of key to cyborg .And some people see Cyborg as maybe next step in human evolution in a way. And tragedy of his situation comes from the fact that he is not traditional human and every time he upgrades himself (probably to become more efficient) he become less human. He is this amazing thing which gives him all these benefits like extended life, no sickness, superhuman abilities but slowly he is losing things like ability to enjoy food, or realize he might not be able to have kids, he is going to outlive everyone he loves or as he gets to be more machine thinks less compassionate and more logical.

    Yeah I think more techno organic route is better for him the tragedy isn't omg I look like a monster and more omg I am like nothing else on earth how do I fit in (and of course the what make you human thing). But what I am suggesting is anything really new Cyborg already has nanites in comics that can change how he looks so he is somewhat there now.

  14. #89
    Fantastic Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    I don’t understand why he NEEDS to be a wish-fulfillment character?
    It's because wish fulfillment and power fantasy are DC's bread and butter, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's always been like that. All of DC's most prominent heroes are wish-fulfillment characters. Guys identify with and want to be like Superman and Batman. Girls want to be like Wonder Woman, and many guys want to date Wonder Woman, and Supergirl, and Zatanna, and even Harley Quinn, and so on. The characters are designed that way (they are idealized).

    The Justice League cartoon show woke (har har) DC up to the idea that it would probably be a good idea to have a prominent black character in their universe who can be on the Justice League. However, DC doesn't like John Stewart, who was used in the cartoon, so they decided Cyborg would fill that role instead. I don't really think they like Cyborg, either, but they like John Stewart even less. The problem is, they were too dumb to realize that nobody wants to be like Cyborg, and nobody wants to be WITH Cyborg. Black male fans "suffer" from this. There is no DC Comics character that is confidently endorsed by DC that black males WANT to identify with on that level (many don't WANT to identify with Cyborg, and that is the problem) that isn't a sidekick, support character, or second or third string hero.

    I think it's a pretty easy to understand situation.

  15. #90
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    It's because wish fulfillment and power fantasy are DC's bread and butter, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's always been like that. All of DC's most prominent heroes are wish-fulfillment characters. Guys identify with and want to be like Superman and Batman. Girls want to be like Wonder Woman, and many guys want to date Wonder Woman, and Supergirl, and Zatanna, and even Harley Quinn, and so on. The characters are designed that way (they are idealized).

    The Justice League cartoon show woke (har har) DC up to the idea that it would probably be a good idea to have a prominent black character in their universe who can be on the Justice League. However, DC doesn't like John Stewart, who was used in the cartoon, so they decided Cyborg would fill that role instead. I don't really think they like Cyborg, either, but they like John Stewart even less. The problem is, they were too dumb to realize that nobody wants to be like Cyborg, and nobody wants to be WITH Cyborg. Black male fans "suffer" from this. There is no DC Comics character that is confidently endorsed by DC that black males WANT to identify with on that level (many don't WANT to identify with Cyborg, and that is the problem) that isn't a sidekick, support character, or second or third string hero.

    I think it's a pretty easy to understand situation.
    That's it.

    He's the most (and only) prominent black hero DC has on the most prominent team, yet he doesn't have the benefit any of the wishfulfilment. Everyone else is someone you want to be...except the lone black hero. He's only allowed to be tragic. That speaks volumes.

    The current look of Cyborg seems like the idea of someone who might say "I don't see color". Seeing color would be beneficial here.

    I like the character of Cyborg. I want better for him though. I want the idealized, wishfulfilment aspect to be apart of him now.
    Last edited by Iconic; 03-04-2019 at 06:10 AM.

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