Black Panther nominated for Oscar Best Picture

[KOSLOX]

you have no idea what you're talking about.

which is fine but just say it's how you feel and not try to dress out up in fake objectivity.

I'm still waiting for him to explain how something can be "measurably" better, while refusing to offer any sort of rubric for this measurement.

"Measurably" implies numbers and objectivity.

[Immortal Weapon]

Merit kind of is the issue though. Black Panther fails on several merits to reach the top echelon so seeing it sitting with other, better movies is causing the backlash and letting people think of conspiracies.

Merit is only an issue because Dark Knight and Logan fans are are peeved their movies didn't get the nomination. Those movies getting snubbed isn't Black Panther problem.

[jetengine]

Merit is only an issue because Dark Knight and Logan fans are are peeved their movies didn't get the nomination. Those movies getting snubbed isn't Black Panther problem.

Not particularly. I dont thibk either of those movies deserved an Oscar and dont think Black Panther deserves one either.

[KOSLOX]

This thread is hilarious. The people in here whining about TDK sound like the people that cried over Abigail Fisher.

"Make it easier for us to get in!"

"Okay, it's easier. Presenting the candidate list."

"NO! We meant make it easier for white people!"

[KOSLOX]

Not particularly. I dont thibk either of those movies deserved an Oscar and dont think Black Panther deserves one either.

It's not going to win one.

Which makes this whole thing even dumber, basically it's just the Academy saying, "Hey we're acknowledging that these movies are worthy of consideration".

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

you have no idea what you're talking about.

which is fine but just say it's how you feel and not try to dress out up in fake objectivity.

Actually it sounds like you have very little familiarity with the Oscars. You want an objective standard....

The directing wasn’t viewed by the Academy to be good enough to be nominated for best director. The screenplays were not viewed as good enough to be nominated for best original or adapted screenplay. Nor were any of the performances viewed as good enough to be given any of the 4 acting category nominations.

The rest of the best picture nominees?

Roma: Best Director, Best Original Screenplay, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actress

BlacKkKlansmen: Best Director, Best Supporting Actor, Best Adapted Screenplay

Bohemian Rhapsody: Best Actor

The Favourite: Best Actress, Best Supporting Actress x2, Best Original Screenplay

Green Book: Best Actor, Best Original Screenplay

A Star Is Born: Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor, Best Adapted Screenplay

Vice: Best Director, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actress, Best Original Screenplay.

Why is Black Panther the only one without a nomination in any one of the other major awards? Literally only one other nominated film didn’t get a Screenplay nom (traditionally the most important nom for best picture) and that film featured one of what are viewed as the two best performances by an actor this year.

You want an objective standard. There’s one.

[Tuck]

Actually it sounds like you have very little familiarity with the Oscars. You want an objective standard....

The directing wasn’t viewed by the Academy to be good enough to be nominated for best director. The screenplays were not viewed as good enough to be nominated for best original or adapted screenplay. Nor were any of the performances viewed as good enough to be given any of the 4 acting category nominations.

I believe for most categories, only the members of the Academy who work in that aspect of film making vote. Actors don't vote for score, etc.

Best Picture I believe is voted on by everyone.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I believe for most categories, only the members of the Academy who work in that aspect of film making vote. Actors don't vote for score, etc.

Best Picture I believe is voted on by everyone.

That is correct. It is however a massive rarity for a film to not get a single nom in any of the major categories. It almost guarantees a loss because you practically can’t win best picture without winning one of the screenplay categories. It’s very hard to conceive of a scenario where the directing, screenplay or acting wasn’t viewed as recognition worthy but the film was for the highest honor. It likely means nearly everyone else disagreed with the directors, writers and actors.

[jetengine]

It's not going to win one.

Which makes this whole thing even dumber, basically it's just the Academy saying, "Hey we're acknowledging that these movies are worthy of consideration".

On the flip side though you could also see it as tokenism. It also raises the question of "If BP is worthy, why not IW"

[jetengine]

That is correct. It is however a massive rarity for a film to not get a single nom in any of the major categories. It almost guarantees a loss because you practically can’t win best picture without winning one of the screenplay categories. It’s very hard to conceive of a scenario where the directing, screenplay or acting wasn’t viewed as recognition worthy but the film was for the highest honor. It likely means nearly everyone else disagreed with the directors, writers and actors.

Which again is where the merit question is raised. Why is it here if its not good enough for these ?

[KOSLOX]

On the flip side though you could also see it as tokenism. It also raises the question of "If BP is worthy, why not IW"

Because BP was a better movie. IW only works as a movie if you've seen at least a half dozen other movies.

[jetengine]

Because BP was a better movie. IW only works as a movie if you've seen at least a half dozen other movies.

And yet the acting, story, visuals etc are better.

[Cyke]

On the flip side though you could also see it as tokenism. It also raises the question of "If BP is worthy, why not IW"

But then it raises the question of what is and isn't tokenism, then. And the problem with that is that all these argument about "merit" and "worthy" rarely, if ever, imagine that something being great while also being focused on something other than whiteness.

It's the affirmative action counterargument all over again; assuming a Black person in leadership got that job because they're Black, but not considering that this Black person is in leadership because they're both the most qualified AND they set an example and provide visibility for capable Black leaders in their wake (and in many cases, the most qualified for a particular job BECAUSE of that experience). On the contrary, let's say Logan or The Dark Knight really were nominated for a major award -- no one would ever say tokenism because no one would accuse them of using race as Oscar bait. So now we question what is the default and what gets labeled as token.

I mean, not that long ago in this very thread, LoTR movies were hailed as unprecedented and historical achievements in filmmaking. And that is a totally fair and accurate assessment. All credit deserved there. But provide that same courtesy to a likewise-unprecedented Black movie of this scale, and now it's tokenism? But it then opens up the door for future, more diverse movies of that scale as well, and that can't be understated.

[Raiders]

Crazy Rich Asians is way better than BP.
Oscars so not asian

[Cyke]

Crazy Rich Asians is way better than BP.
Oscars so not asian

I know it's a joke, and it's really disappointing that Crazy Rich Asians wasn't nominated, but let's not pit minorities against each other, eh? It only furthers the idea that that 1. there's a racial hierarchy, and 2. there's a default that neither Black nor Asian movies should belong to. And it was a tactic used in the 1960s to separate Black and Asian civil rights powers when both groups had banded together to fight for equity and equality.