Black Panther nominated for Oscar Best Picture

[JKtheMac]

superhero films like Star Wars films are not meant to win Oscars for Best Picture, IMO. They are meant to be popular entertainment not high art or experimental art house stories. They need to sell tickets.

Did anyone here suggest that Black Panther would win? What exactly is your point? I don’t get it. If you are not a fan that’s kind of irrelevant to the academy. They liked it, they nominated it and they didn’t vote it as their winner. It is the most complete superhero movie in terms of meaty themes and serious content. Some might argue that Nolan’s movies were equally meaty but I certainly wouldn’t. It’s definitely a lot better than LotR3. It was worthy of a nomination and because the academy are a little younger now and a little more diverse it got mentioned. How is this a bad thing?

IMO it deserves the most Oscars for a superhero movie. It go that. But I am not in the academy so my opinion is entirely coincidental.

[titanfan]

superhero films like Star Wars films are not meant to win Oscars for Best Picture, IMO. They are meant to be popular entertainment not high art or experimental art house stories. They need to sell tickets.

Black Panther wasn't one of those films--but we are seeing the superhero genre growing--there's a lot of properties in the Marvel and DCU categories that could easily be used to create a high art type story.

Kind of hilarious to see a lot people would have preferred a Black Panther win over Green Book last night.

[skyvolt2000]

The academy don’t care about ratings. They are things they are swayed by but who watches the awards show is definitely not one of them.

YES THEY DO CARE.

That is why you saw so many changes because when ratings are LOW-that means the amount you can charge for commercials gets lower too.

As does that network.

[Cyke]

YES THEY DO CARE.

That is why you saw so many changes because when ratings are LOW-that means the amount you can charge for commercials gets lower too.

As does that network.

The Academy body is different than the production side. If it were about ratings, the Academy voters would have voted for the film they all saw, which would've been Black Panther. On the other hand, the production side of it -- the network, the producers, the event planners, etc -- they're the ones that decide the host, which awards were to be cut, the programming, etc.

superhero films like Star Wars films are not meant to win Oscars for Best Picture, IMO. They are meant to be popular entertainment not high art or experimental art house stories. They need to sell tickets.

Just because a movie doesn't mean to be high art or experimental art doesn't mean it's not art on its own merits, though. Sometimes just making a movie with a lot of clear vision and intent will push it into quality status. Return of the King is, for all intents and purposes, not just a fantasy film but a film full of heroes with superhuman abilities. It's entertainment at the height of pop culture, and it won the Oscar. I'd argue that Forrest Gump also wasn't made to be art house bait, it was made to be a good movie simply put. Make a good movie and worry about the rest later.

[stargazer01]

The Academy body is different than the production side. If it were about ratings, the Academy voters would have voted for the film they all saw, which would've been Black Panther. On the other hand, the production side of it -- the network, the producers, the event planners, etc -- they're the ones that decide the host, which awards were to be cut, the programming, etc.



Just because a movie doesn't mean to be high art or experimental art doesn't mean it's not art on its own merits, though. Sometimes just making a movie with a lot of clear vision and intent will push it into quality status. Return of the King is, for all intents and purposes, not just a fantasy film but a film full of heroes with superhuman abilities. It's entertainment at the height of pop culture, and it won the Oscar. I'd argue that Forrest Gump also wasn't made to be art house bait, it was made to be a good movie simply put. Make a good movie and worry about the rest later.

I didn't say superhero films can't be quality. Of course some of them have great stories, good acting and high production quality, but I don't think superheros are meant to be Best Film material. The way they are made is pretty formulaic to make the most $$ possible. It's for the masses. It's main purpose wasn't to tell a unique story with strong drama. It needs to please audiences. LotR is a different kind of film with extraordinary characters and magic and big VFX.

[Jabare]

superhero films like Star Wars films are not meant to win Oscars for Best Picture, IMO. They are meant to be popular entertainment not high art or experimental art house stories. They need to sell tickets.

if Lord of the Rings can win Oscars so can superhero films, but because of the current landscape it won't happen.

Superhero films can win an animated feature or a foreign film, but Best Picture is generally a specific type of film. Usually a drama, but could also be a thriller, war movie or something based on real evens..

A horror movie will never win with the current Academy members same goes for over the top Sci-Fi something subtle can work tho.

A Best Picture film usually fits a certain genre and tone. A film like Hidden Figures which was nominated ultimately stood no chance of winning in part because of how it was shot. In order to win it would have had to be a year with bad competition.

[C_Miller]

Popular films used to win Oscars quite frequently, in fact, it used to be a rule. Prior to the 2000s, it was a very common occurrence that the film that won Best Picture would be one of the Top 10 highest grossing movies of the year, a lot of the times being in the Top 5. Without doing too much exhaustive research, I believe that it's vastly more common for a "blockbuster"/audience favorite to win Best Picture than an arthouse movie that's released on 20 screens between Thanksgiving and Christmas when looking at the 91 year career of the Oscars. However, like a light switch, it all stopped in 2000. There has only been 1 Best Picture winner to be in the Top 10 highest grossing movies since the 2000 Oscars and that was 2003. In fact, there have only been a handful of the Top 10 highest grossing movies even nominated in that time period.

Now, the question is why. There are some common ones. Are popular movies getting worse? Are Oscars voters out of touch with the average filmgoer? Have filmmakers learned to exploit the awards game and do it for less and less money? I think it's some combination. I'm disenchanted with a lot of the popular movies that come out in the sense that none of them are especially interesting from a filmmaking perspective. The ones that are deeper than most tend to still not have that much to say and what they do have to say is rarely the most profound idea. Ideas that are often found better made elsewhere. I think much of it has to do with many of the big budget blockbusters being vehicles for IPs rather than movies that are meant to stand on their own.

But I do think the Academy voters are somewhat out of touch with movie audiences, but I think that's starting to change. Black Panther getting nominated I think is a step in the right direction. It was one of the first comic book movies to be film forward and also be very good at the same time. I'll admit that I'm not the biggest Dark Knight fan before people respond by saying that I forgot it in the comments. Logan for Best Adapted Screenplay last year helped too. And while they may not have been high grossing movies, last year's collection of Best Picture Nominees were super weird, in a good way. Great movies with maybe only one true Oscar Bait film in there.

And as far as the last one, of course, filmmakers have caught on to the algorithm and found a way to win awards without spending crazy amounts of money. That's why Harvey Weinstein is a thing. He's the one who figured it out and he never would have been the force in the industry if he didn't figure it out. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that last year had a really strange set of movies in the Best Picture slot in the first year without Weinstein running campaigns.

I don't really have a conclusion of how to fix things. I think there's a much bigger divide between blockbusters and smaller movies now with really nothing in the middle. I'd love to see the return of the mid-budget blockbuster that used to get a lot of love at the Oscars. I don't think it's that people only want to see comic book movies and sequels now, it's just that's all that's really being marketed now. But unfortunately when big budget movies cost upwards of 200 million dollars, there's just no money to spread to mid-budget movies so everything is either Big Budget or Microbudget. I'd like more variation.

[Powerboy]

I don't think anybody really thought "Black Panther" would win best picture. Did it deserve to be nominated? Yes. Were there reasons besides pure quality that it was nominated? Yes. Of all the Oscar nominated movies, was it the only one I actually went to the theater and saw? Yes.

I do want to see "A Star Is Born" but that's beside the point.

And, yes, C_Miller, there was a time when a movie like BP getting nominated (in the sense of being an immensely popular movie) getting nominated would have been par for the course.

[choptop]

Into the Spider-Verse winning best animated movie is a much more satisfying result. That film's actually deserving

BP is good, but it was never good enough for this nomination. It's popcorn.

I have to agree in my opinion it didn't really deserve a best picture nom but then again lot's of movies get the BP nom that don't deserve it so no big deal.

[Jokerz79]

I didn't say superhero films can't be quality. Of course some of them have great stories, good acting and high production quality, but I don't think superheros are meant to be Best Film material. The way they are made is pretty formulaic to make the most $$ possible. It's for the masses. It's main purpose wasn't to tell a unique story with strong drama. It needs to please audiences. LotR is a different kind of film with extraordinary characters and magic and big VFX.

Honestly this is a new opinion all thru the 20th century most Oscar winners were crowd pleasers and some with very simplistic stories.

Around the World in 80's Days won in 1956, The Sound of Music in 1965, E.T. was nominated in 1982, Driving Miss Daisy beat Do the Right Thing in 1989, Forrest Bump won in 1994 same year the Fugitive was also nominated, Titanic beat LA Confidential in 1997 now I like these films but they're no really more complex than Black Panther. This was normal though until Harvey Weinstein and Miramax started behind scenes shenanigans to get their films nominated because "Popcorn fare didn't deserve it". Truthfully I was rooting for Roma or Blackkklansmen but BP being nominated and even winning wouldn't had been any downgrade for the Oscars just going back to form.

[KOSLOX]

Honestly this is a new opinion all thru the 20th century most Oscar winners were crowd pleasers and some with very simplistic stories.

Around the World in 80's Days won in 1956, The Sound of Music in 1965, E.T. was nominated in 1982, Driving Miss Daisy beat Do the Right Thing in 1989, Forrest Bump won in 1994 same year the Fugitive was also nominated, Titanic beat LA Confidential in 1997 now I like these films but they're no really more complex than Black Panther. This was normal though until Harvey Weinstein and Miramax started behind scenes shenanigans to get their films nominated because "Popcorn fare didn't deserve it". Truthfully I was rooting for Roma or Blackkklansmen but BP being nominated and even winning wouldn't had been any downgrade for the Oscars just going back to form.

Same. Green Book was a really boring choice, and I'd rather have seen Blindspotting get a nod over that, Vice, or Bohemian Rhapsody. This was the first year I actually saw most of the Nominated films, so by my standards/interests the Academy is picking movies that gen audience are actually seeing. The only one I didn't see was The Favourite.

[ed2962]

[JKtheMac]

YES THEY DO CARE.

That is why you saw so many changes because when ratings are LOW-that means the amount you can charge for commercials gets lower too.

As does that network.

The people that organise the process don’t get to nominate. The wider academy do.

[JKtheMac]

I didn't say superhero films can't be quality. Of course some of them have great stories, good acting and high production quality, but I don't think superheros are meant to be Best Film material. The way they are made is pretty formulaic to make the most $$ possible. It's for the masses. It's main purpose wasn't to tell a unique story with strong drama. It needs to please audiences. LotR is a different kind of film with extraordinary characters and magic and big VFX.

So in your opinion BP is not full of extraordinary characters? Black Panther qualifies as an extraordinary movie on every level. And importantly the only level that counts. The members of the academy that voted decided it was worthy of the nomination.

[JKtheMac]

if Lord of the Rings can win Oscars so can superhero films, but because of the current landscape it won't happen.

Superhero films can win an animated feature or a foreign film, but Best Picture is generally a specific type of film. Usually a drama, but could also be a thriller, war movie or something based on real evens..

A horror movie will never win with the current Academy members same goes for over the top Sci-Fi something subtle can work tho.

A Best Picture film usually fits a certain genre and tone. A film like Hidden Figures which was nominated ultimately stood no chance of winning in part because of how it was shot. In order to win it would have had to be a year with bad competition.

I don’t think we can make these assumptions any more. The academy members are changing year on year. Quite aside from the wilful expansion of the academy to include a wider demographic, the voters have a natural churn as they die.

I foresee at least one or two genre movies in the running from now on. As for franchises, the MCU have managed to spin the idea that each movie is in a separate genre (which isn’t really true) and so their movies tend to be seen on their own merits more readily than say the latest Pottervese movie.

When you separate Black Panther out from its MCU surrounds it does tend to stand out as an entirely unique entity. As comic fans we see it alongside Avengers movies, but the average filmgoer will immediately notice the differences. Just in terms of explored themes it has much more in common with art house movies than the average popcorn movie, which don’t tend to focus on themes but instead upon action and spectacle.