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  1. #196
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Literally no one in comics has acknowledged that the bodies were blended together in years. It's been treated as a straight up bodyswap for ages

  2. #197
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    It wasn't a true body swap, the two bodies were melded together so you couldn't distinguish one from the other besides the hair, and the body that Kwannon is currently in is NOT her original body, that was is long gone, this body is the one that Jamie Braddock remade for Betsy...
    it was a body swap. Spiral manipulating them afterwards doesnt change the fact that they were both in the other's original body. And they could be distinguised physically. One looked Asian whereas the other looked more Caucasian. What you are referring to was psychic, DNA and scent but their physical appearance was not identical

  3. #198
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    We need to develop language for the different axis of interest, awareness, and the minutiae of detail.

    "One looked Asian whereas the other looked more Caucasian." -- is the only detail that matters to Marvel, whereas the bodyswap itself is a detail just below that, and known to casual readers of X-Men history. The degree of story detail that Logan mentions is microscopic, and even below the awareness of most characters in the story.

  4. #199
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    We need to develop language for the different axis of interest, awareness, and the minutiae of detail.

    "One looked Asian whereas the other looked more Caucasian." -- is the only detail that matters to Marvel, whereas the bodyswap itself is a detail just below that, and known to casual readers of X-Men history. The degree of story detail that Logan mentions is microscopic, and even below the awareness of most characters in the story.
    IA. It overly complicates things and didnt quite make sense was Nicieza wrote it and even he retconned it. Its not something that was ever dealt with after that and I doubt it will here as it really adds nothing to the story or the characters. Its convoluted as is without adding that extra layer to confuse readers even more

  5. #200
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    The last time I worried about Betsy's future was when she was a) stuck in rotgut like Exiles and b) actually dead. She's back now and she's been fairly invested in over the last decade or so. I'm not that worried about her getting shunted off as Captain Britain; they seem committed, and Betsy/Psylocke is not Brian. If the book fails ultimately they'll likely just give her back the name while doing something different with Kwannon and make it look important, a la Ben Reilly's recent resurgence. But as it is I'm fine with the new status quo.

  6. #201
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    We're stumbling into Betsy Braddock Appreciation at this point, but what happens AFTER Excalibur is something I'm very interested in discussing.

    1. I fully expect Kwannon to remain "Psylocke".
    2. I fully expect "Psylocke" to remain a central B(+)-list X-Man.

  7. #202
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    I'll believe Kwannon staying central to the X-Men at large when I see it.

  8. #203
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    I'll believe Kwannon staying central to the X-Men at large when I see it.
    OK, so we can all assume FA will run its course, and the three leads will separate. Where do you think Kwannon/Psylocke will end up?

  9. #204
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    OK, so we can all assume FA will run its course, and the three leads will separate. Where do you think Kwannon/Psylocke will end up?
    Frankly? Unless they handle her very carefully I think she'll just be used on and off like a host of other third-tier X-Men characters. Unless she is newly defined very well I think the convoluted backstory will keep her off the main burner. I think expecting her to seamlessly inherit Betsy's role in the X-Men is a profound misreading of past comic book history with many similar characters. If this experiment fails Kwannon will go into relative limbo. This has been proven to be viable by the very muted reaction to Betsy being made British again, well before we knew about the name-swap and FA/Excalibur. There was minor outcry, but not much. People were largely just glad to see the awkward race issue settled.

    If Kwannon was some established character - any established character - I might be more concerned for Betsy's future. There's nothing there though, and just inheriting a branded look isn't enough. So Hill has an uphill battle ahead of him. I'm interested in seeing how it goes, and I'll support the character if I like it, but in terms of thinking it's an either/or - no, I'm not concerned about Betsy if it came to that. Not that I think it has to. There is room for both.

  10. #205
    Fantastic Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Yeah i feel like as long as fallen angels is even moderately succesful Kwannon's C-list guaranteed for the forseeable future. But Its hard to say, I mean we dont really know anything about her character trajectory in-universe

  11. #206
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Frankly? ... There is room for both.
    All very fair. I'm pessimistic toward Marvel's perception of equity in Marvel UK properties. Despite Betsy's years as Psylocke, her new status as Captain Britain means THAT is her new umbrella.

  12. #207
    Mighty Member CGAR's Avatar
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    They are definitely keeping Kwannonlocke even if Fallen Angels gets cancelled. Lets not forget this is probably happening because of cartoon/videogames/toys/allmerchandise

    The Jim Lee Psylocke visual is iconic. And the only thing that will be bad is if they make Kwannon exactly the same as Betsy was when she was in the Asian body.

  13. #208
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    They are definitely keeping Kwannonlocke even if Fallen Angels gets cancelled. Lets not forget this is probably happening because of cartoon/videogames/toys/allmerchandise

    The Jim Lee Psylocke visual is iconic. And the only thing that will be bad is if they make Kwannon exactly the same as Betsy was when she was in the Asian body.
    Yeah but what does that do to Betsy? They could include both but I see them now going with Kwannon over her

  14. #209
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Again, all I'll say is if there's no 'there' there, they're not going to default to using just a superficial physical image in the main books. They can always keep using Kwannon/Psylocke in video games and gamers won't care; I don't think that visual is going anywhere in merchandising no matter what happens to Kwannon long-term. But I also think books-wise, if the current push fails the worst case is Kwannon ends up C-list. Whereas if Captain Britain III(?) fails, they'll have Betsy take back the Psylocke name and let Kwannon say she's finding a new codename to 'make her own identity.' Oldest trick in the book.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Yeah but what does that do to Betsy? They could include both but I see them now going with Kwannon over her
    At the end of the day we all need to remember that Marvel is a business that needs to generate revenue.
    In line with both comments - it's whatever makes them meet that objective.
    Said it before - I for one think Marvel has played the right hand having them both and attempting to appease both camps.
    Glad "Psylocke" (Kwannon) is here to stay even if it's for a bit...

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