Revanche: Kwannon/Psylocke II appreciation 2019

[CGAR]

I just want to know is this really how Kwannon fans feel about this?

180A15F7-2D6E-4C83-BBC6-163FD3C7D25E.jpg

[CRaymond]

Lol uneducated trash. Disappointing but understandable. Also possibly a bot.

[CGAR]

Yeah I disagree with that tweet. But it's interesting that some will have that perspective. Even though Kwannon also had a body during some of the time Betsy had the Asian body.
Wondering how the writers are going to navigate how much of it is Betsy's and now Kwannons.

Since going by Hunt for Wolverine: Mystery in Madripoor. She was technically still alive the whole time in Betsy's head?

[Havok83]

Yeah I disagree with that tweet. But it's interesting that some will have that perspective. Even though Kwannon also had a body during some of the time Betsy had the Asian body.
Wondering how the writers are going to navigate how much of it is Betsy's and now Kwannons.

Since going by Hunt for Wolverine: Mystery in Madripoor. She was technically still alive the whole time in Betsy's head?

She was dead bc she had no body. We dont really have any explanation for what happened at the end of MiM. Hopefully FA will answer it

[houndsofluv]

I just want to know is this really how Kwannon fans feel about this?

180A15F7-2D6E-4C83-BBC6-163FD3C7D25E.jpg

I don’t really mind her taking on the name psylocke but I don’t like ...love it. “Deserved” is an incredibly weird way to put it imo. It’s kind of sad that they’re pushing POC character for fanservice by giving her the exact costume and codename she “had” in the 90s when she was basically used as a puppet. but at the same time I’m excited to see what Bryan Hill does with her - maybe he’ll explore the “psylocke” identity and what it means personally to her? Yeah very torn on this

[Thievery]

I just want to know is this really how Kwannon fans feel about this?

180A15F7-2D6E-4C83-BBC6-163FD3C7D25E.jpg

I don't think that most Kwannon fans feel this strongly about her deserving to be called Psylocke, but I'm honestly a little surprised that there hasn't been a little bit more response like this. Kwannon does have some hardcore fans out there. There was probably many more from her appearances back in the 90's who wished for her to get her old body back, only there was no twitter to show it. It's likely that these readers have long wanted Kwannon back in her original body. And, just look at how happy old school Psylocke fans are that Betsy is back in her original body, and that she will be taking the Captain Britain name.

For myself, I will wait and read the story to see if I like the reason for Kwannon to become New Psylocke.

[blinkingblah]

I feel like they should describe it like that Black mirror episode where the mom is living in the dad's head.

[Killerbee911]

I just want to know is this really how Kwannon fans feel about this?

180A15F7-2D6E-4C83-BBC6-163FD3C7D25E.jpg

Deserved? Meh. It is a move. I don't think it would be some great tragedy if she was called Kwannon or Revanche. It is good that Marvel is taking Kwannon success seriously and giving her the Psylocke name and things you associate with it is long term move for success for the character.

[WallStreeter]

Deserved? Meh. It is a move. I don't think it would be some great tragedy if she was called Kwannon or Revanche. It is good that Marvel is taking Kwannon success seriously and giving her the Psylocke name and things you associate with it is long term move for success for the character.

Yes. She's the star of Fallen Angels, so now we'll actually get to learn more of who she really is.

[PsionicHero]

From a marketing perspective I understand leaving Kwannon as Psylocke, and all the attributes that = Psylocke to the masses...but I don't love it either.

They could have left Kwannon with the typical Psylocke outfit, the psychic knife, dark purple hair and braded her with a NEW CODE name and I think it would have been perfectly acceptable. Moonstar isn't using the code name Psyche anymore...not sure why they didn't go with Psyche/PsyKey and Psylocke....maybe it's a little to on the nose.

Anyways, 'deserved' is not appropriate word choice in my opinion.

However, what is done is done. I just hope that after a couple of issues or story arcs the writer starts to explore some ways to represent Kwannon in a way that isn't nostalgia from the 90s.

EDIT:

Question- I don't spend many, if any time on the General Marvel side of this forum: Does Elektra get treated/spoken about the same way Psylocke (Betsy or Kwannon) gets treated? I see posters refer to her as nothing but an "asstittie ninja" and I hate that so much. What about characters like Red Sonja or Witch Blade, does they get as much hate?

[WallStreeter]

From a marketing perspective I understand leaving Kwannon as Psylocke, and all the attributes that = Psylocke to the masses...but I don't love it either.

They could have left Kwannon with the typical Psylocke outfit, the psychic knife, dark purple hair and braded her with a NEW CODE name and I think it would have been perfectly acceptable. Moonstar isn't using the code name Psyche anymore...not sure why they didn't go with Psyche/PsyKey and Psylocke....maybe it's a little to on the nose.

Anyways, 'deserved' is not appropriate word choice in my opinion.

However, what is done is done. I just hope that after a couple of issues or story arcs the writer starts to explore some ways to represent Kwannon in a way that isn't nostalgia from the 90s.

EDIT:

Question- I don't spend many, if any time on the General Marvel side of this forum: Does Elektra get treated/spoken about the same way Psylocke (Betsy or Kwannon) gets treated? I see posters refer to her as nothing but an "asstittie ninja" and I hate that so much. What about characters like Red Sonja or Witch Blade, does they get as much hate?

I think fans sometimes don't respect that this is a business and people earn a living and pay their bills this way. If Kwannon as Psylocke is a financial success to them, then they made the right decision. An individual person may like or not like something, but that's true with everything in life.

There are people who don't care for Wolverine. But he's an amazing successful character, and just because some don't like him doesn't mean Marvel is wrong to use him as much as they have.

For most of her pre ninja existance, Elizabeth Braddock was not Psylocke. That name was given to her in mojo world, and she was herself/British Psylocke for a comparatively short run before she became Asian ninja Psylocke . Psylocke is associated with Kwannon's physical body for over 30 years. So that's why Kwannon is the one to retain the codename.

Elizabeth got went back to her British/Otherworld roots, and she is Captain Britain now. Following the success of Captain Marvel it would not surprise me if they are not planning on introducing Elizabeth in the movies as Captain Britain. We've seen an Asian Psylocke in two X-Men movies and in video games and cartoons, so that's how they will introduce Psylocke to the MCU.

Asian body Psylocke (Betsy in Kwannon's body) was rarely seen with her brother Captain Britain and her ties to the Otherword and Britain were almost forgotten. She was basically another character from the pre ninja Elizabeth Braddock. It was simply horribly writing to have Betsy be kidnapped and then turned into an Asian ninja girl. I'm happy she got her original body back and went back to who she originally was, but an updated version.

[Alexi]

While Elektra's uniform as had some criticism over the years, it was usually a bit more modest than the floss Betsy was drawn in. Depending on the artist the bottoms usually looked less like a thong & the flaps in the front & back. It seemed like at times artist couldn't decide if they wanted Betsy's butt more exposed or the front.

I agree with the reasons on giving Kwannon the codename Psylocke. Built in recognization & it allows Marvel to sell merchandise, especially to casual fans who aren't aware that the swaps been reversed.

My biggest issue is putting Kwannon back into Betsy's very dated uniform. Yeah it's for fan nostalgia & sales, but it's also cheapens the character. So many X-Men & Women have successfully shook off the 90's costumes. I'm hoping that at the end of the first arc or two, Kwannon gets a new uniform. She's a character we know little about (outside of convoluted creation/retcon) so I've got a feeling with the wrong writer, it'd be like reading Betsy anyway.

I might be in the minority here but I could see why Betsy would finally want to get rid of it. It was a stage name from Mojo, who probably did the most damage to her outside of the Hand & Slaymaster. At the same time I could see the argument for her wanting to bring something positive out of the name & everything that happened while she used it.

[Selene]

Asian body Psylocke (Betsy in Kwannon's body) was rarely seen with her brother Captain Britain and her ties to the Otherword and Britain were almost forgotten. She was basically another character from the pre ninja Elizabeth Braddock. It was simply horribly writing to have Betsy be kidnapped and then turned into an Asian ninja girl. I'm happy she got her original body back and went back to who she originally was, but an updated version.

Is this supposed to be serious?How often was Betsy in Betsy's body seen with her twin and his wife after Claremont moved her to the X-Men in the mid-80's?Or did she even speak of him during those times anyways?Setting aside the fact Psylocke even in the Asian body has had more ties to her homeland than any non-American X-Man I can think of,almost every Psylocke-centred story since Claremont reclaimed her in 2000 has heavily featured her connection to Britain and Otherworld (Excalibur mini, House of M, New Excalibur, Exiles, UXF,...).

Clearly you have no idea what you're saying.

[Mia]

Again, all I'll say is if there's no 'there' there, they're not going to default to using just a superficial physical image in the main books. They can always keep using Kwannon/Psylocke in video games and gamers won't care; I don't think that visual is going anywhere in merchandising no matter what happens to Kwannon long-term. But I also think books-wise, if the current push fails the worst case is Kwannon ends up C-list. Whereas if Captain Britain III(?) fails, they'll have Betsy take back the Psylocke name and let Kwannon say she's finding a new codename to 'make her own identity.' Oldest trick in the book.

Fingers crossed my friend. Fingers crossed. Because honestly with the exception of some of the vocal fans. I don't see the necessity of the change.


I don't see what the current incarnation of Betsy Braddock/Captain Britain is doing that couldn't be easily fulfilled with Emma Frost, Polaris, Rogue, Sage (she's back right?) Wanda or even X-23 (now that she's been aged up). She's just another white woman who lives a relatively charmed existence. Yawn.

I just find the notion that you can only relate to someone with your background or skin colour silly. Character is what should count. I was first introduced to Asian Betsy under Nicieza and I loved the character. How she went through hardships and had to put her life together again. She was and probably remains one of my all time favourite super heroes. Blend of a warrior and lady like refinement.

[Havok83]

For most of her pre ninja existance, Elizabeth Braddock was not Psylocke. That name was given to her in mojo world, and she was herself/British Psylocke for a comparatively short run before she became Asian ninja Psylocke . Psylocke is associated with Kwannon's physical body for over 30 years. So that's why Kwannon is the one to retain the codename.

Elizabeth got went back to her British/Otherworld roots, and she is Captain Britain now. Following the success of Captain Marvel it would not surprise me if they are not planning on introducing Elizabeth in the movies as Captain Britain. We've seen an Asian Psylocke in two X-Men movies and in video games and cartoons, so that's how they will introduce Psylocke to the MCU.

Asian body Psylocke (Betsy in Kwannon's body) was rarely seen with her brother Captain Britain and her ties to the Otherword and Britain were almost forgotten. She was basically another character from the pre ninja Elizabeth Braddock. It was simply horribly writing to have Betsy be kidnapped and then turned into an Asian ninja girl. I'm happy she got her original body back and went back to who she originally was, but an updated version.

100% of her history with hte X-men has been as Psylocke so the vast majority of people that came to know her as such no no different

I dont think Psylocke in the Asian body is why she was rarely seen with Brian. She was barely seen with him before then and thats bc she was an X-man and there wasnt much crossover with Excalibur. She and the Asian body have had more to do with him and Otherworld at least prior to whats happening now in Dawn of X

Fingers crossed my friend. Fingers crossed. Because honestly with the exception of some of the vocal fans. I don't see the necessity of the change.


I don't see what the current incarnation of Betsy Braddock/Captain Britain is doing that couldn't be easily fulfilled with Emma Frost, Polaris, Rogue, Sage (she's back right?) Wanda or even X-23 (now that she's been aged up). She's just another white woman who lives a relatively charmed existence. Yawn.

I just find the notion that you can only relate to someone with your background or skin colour silly. Character is what should count. I was first introduced to Asian Betsy under Nicieza and I loved the character. How she went through hardships and had to put her life together again. She was and probably remains one of my all time favourite super heroes. Blend of a warrior and lady like refinement.

Betsy is more than just another white woman. She isnt anything like those women you mention and has alot to offer.