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  1. #376
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Nah. Things would've played out similarly with Jean up until "Greys' End" (when the Shi'ar wiped out her whole family) and "Deadly Genesis". Then, things would've diverged as it would've been Scott and Jean going into space after Vulcan instead of Alex and Lorna. At minimum, Jean would've wanted to have a word or two with Lilandra. At maximum, it would have been roaring rampage of revenge time.

    The question is who would've taken over Scott's role back on Earth. Would Utopia still have happened? AvX?
    I'm assuming that even with Jean alive Marvel was determined to end Jott - yours is the likely outcome had Marvel decided to continue with Jott, right?

    Hmm, just realized that Jean being around wouldn't have allowed for Decimation, Messiah Trilogy, or AvX really, unless Jean decided to reject the Phoenix then.

    I still don't know why the PF let her live after resurrecting her if she rejected it. Has anyone answered that yet?

  2. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but I can't think of an instance where the X-Men allowed innocents to pay the price for their proliferation - and unfortunately, that's what Marvel had the Inhumans do in the Terrigen Crisis narrative. If the X-Men, I would denounce it same as you are doing with this, and I appreciate that.
    Yeah. It was just a hypothetical question. I couldn't recall a time where the X-Men were put in a situation like that or given circumstances that would be comporable. but the Inhumans were placed in a situation where their race would be effectively extinct until a replacement for terrigen was found or continue to let people die. So I thought it would be interesting what people would think if it had been mutants instead of the Inhumans that had to face this type of decision. In particular, because you hear the statement "so and so had to so it to ensure the survival of their race" as if it were the ultimate justification. Which, to bring it back to the issue, was a reason why I liked Cyclops saying that he placed the needs of his people above others and how that apparently bothers him and he will now be a hero not only for his people, but all people. I thought that was a pretty cool character moment actually.

  3. #378
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Unfortunately it did detract from the issue because speaking for myself it took me out of the story. I literally stopped on that page and was like why are their two storm's and then spent time looking to see if there were any other duplicates on the page which means i was effectively taken out of the story.
    I missed it on my first read but similar issues over the years have simply made me shrug, accept the artist/colourist goof, and move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  4. #379
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyotheseasons View Post
    Yeah. It was just a hypothetical question. I couldn't recall a time where the X-Men were put in a situation like that or given circumstances that would be comporable. but the Inhumans were placed in a situation where their race would be effectively extinct until a replacement for terrigen was found or continue to let people die. So I thought it would be interesting what people would think if it had been mutants instead of the Inhumans that had to face this type of decision. In particular, because you hear the statement "so and so had to so it to ensure the survival of their race" as if it were the ultimate justification. Which, to bring it back to the issue, was a reason why I liked Cyclops saying that he placed the needs of his people above others and how that apparently bothers him and he will now be a hero not only for his people, but all people. I thought that was a pretty cool character moment actually.
    Scott straddled the line for me.

    You know, the Terrigen Crisis could've led to an interesting narrative for the Inhumans by having them destroy it immediately upon learning it was fatal to innocent mutants - then they would've had to journey for a new source.

  5. #380
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    The Terrigen mist was a biological weapon changing people against their will. It's no different than the first X-men movie with magneto trying to change people against their will into mutants.

  6. #381
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Finally read it, it was a good story for the most part, i found the way that Scott was resurrected and brought back pretty cool and that technically was his family that brought him back,. The artwork was also amazing.

    The big problem that everyone has with this, especially Scott saying that he was wrong...yeah i get the outrage, especially because Marvel's narrative just didn't work very well. But it was clear to me that they would never admit that or worse, i think that they don't understand why people think that their narrative doesn't work. I just personally gave up about it with current editorial, here is hoping that they could do something great with Cyclops and all the X-Men line in the future (my hopes aren't hight, but eh, expect the best and be ready for the worse is my motto of life, i'm loyal to it)
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  7. #382
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokus83 View Post
    The Terrigen mist was a biological weapon changing people against their will. It's no different than the first X-men movie with magneto trying to change people against their will into mutants.
    Civilians were written as embracing Inhumanity. Like where on Mar El earth is getting engulfed in a green cloud and morphed into a grotesque cocoon something that would be celebrated? Never mind the chance of death or becoming a fire breathing lawn chair...

    It was actually ludicrous and then the tone-deaf covers with those werid smiles...

    Just can't say "IvX was awful" enough. It took a massive dump on terrigenesis.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambaryerno View Post
    people like that just make me wonder why they read x-men in the first place. Right up there with the ones who attack star trek for pushing an "sjw agenda."
    deadass you betta say it

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I'm assuming that even with Jean alive Marvel was determined to end Jott - yours is the likely outcome had Marvel decided to continue with Jott, right?
    Yep.

    Hmm, just realized that Jean being around wouldn't have allowed for Decimation, Messiah Trilogy, or AvX really, unless Jean decided to reject the Phoenix then.
    It depends on if she would've retained the Phoenix force after Morrison's run or been back to her regular self. If the latter, a lot of that would've played out similarly but with some of the roles switched around.

    I still don't know why the PF let her live after resurrecting her if she rejected it. Has anyone answered that yet?
    No. I doubt an answer, or at least a satisfactory one, will ever be forthcoming.

    The Phoenix hasn't had a consistent motive or personality since Alan Davis's run on Excalibur in the early 90s. Since then, it just shows up and does things. It's a plot device.

  10. #385
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyotheseasons View Post
    Yeah. It was just a hypothetical question. I couldn't recall a time where the X-Men were put in a situation like that or given circumstances that would be comporable. but the Inhumans were placed in a situation where their race would be effectively extinct until a replacement for terrigen was found or continue to let people die. So I thought it would be interesting what people would think if it had been mutants instead of the Inhumans that had to face this type of decision. In particular, because you hear the statement "so and so had to so it to ensure the survival of their race" as if it were the ultimate justification. Which, to bring it back to the issue, was a reason why I liked Cyclops saying that he placed the needs of his people above others and how that apparently bothers him and he will now be a hero not only for his people, but all people. I thought that was a pretty cool character moment actually.
    This is what bothers me and lots of there readers.

    Cyclops never put mutants above anybody else and he was always a hero even when humans and his own friends outright hated him.

    It was just sooo disingenuous.

  11. #386
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    We'll have to eventually move past that. They're trying to rewrite history saying Scott went full Magneto, even though that never happened. He never entertained supremacy ideals, it was only survival. And he dared call himself a revolutionary in the USA, and we all know (at least here in South America) how people who dare fighting the american way are seen. I guess the solution for the current status quo will be hugging everyone until their dormant X-Genes break free.

  12. #387
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I'm assuming that even with Jean alive Marvel was determined to end Jott - yours is the likely outcome had Marvel decided to continue with Jott, right?

    Hmm, just realized that Jean being around wouldn't have allowed for Decimation, Messiah Trilogy, or AvX really, unless Jean decided to reject the Phoenix then.

    I still don't know why the PF let her live after resurrecting her if she rejected it. Has anyone answered that yet?
    The Phoenix let her live because Jean is still her favorite host, and there was no point in killing her again. Frankly, she's just lonely.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Scott straddled the line for me.
    On a meta note, it amuses me that this issue has sparked a re-litigation of the RightClops years. That said, I won't be participating. Too tired. Been there, done that. Don't have anything new to say.

    Having read the annual, it reads to me like Marvel is picking up with Scott pretty much where Bendis left off. Scott's ready to turn the page on that part of his life, but Xavier's back (sort of), and Emma is still out there. Those are two RightClops-era threads yet to be tied off.

  14. #389
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    This is what bothers me and lots of there readers.

    Cyclops never put mutants above anybody else and he was always a hero even when humans and his own friends outright hated him.

    It was just sooo disingenuous.
    For me, i feel like there could have been a healthy ground if the X-Office wasn't so hard-line on painting the issue so black and white.Like, I dunno, have him instead admit that he was so tunneled visioned by his pragmatism that he alienated the other X-men, his family. That he can strive for a more healthy balance.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  15. #390
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    On a meta note, it amuses me that this issue has sparked a re-litigation of the RightClops years. That said, I won't be participating. Too tired. Been there, done that. Don't have anything new to say.

    Having read the annual, it reads to me like Marvel is picking up with Scott pretty much where Bendis left off. Scott's ready to turn the page on that part of his life, but Xavier's back (sort of), and Emma is still out there. Those are two RightClops-era threads yet to be tied off.
    I don't need RightClops 2.0 - but I don't want Tyke 2.0 either. Give me the middle-ground of RightClops and BoyScott without dumping on everything that came before, you know?

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