Yasuri Shichika vs Ryoga

[BitVyper]

Standard battle, but Ryoga isn’t depressed enough to ultimate shishihokodan

[Sharpandpointies]

Going to need feats for this guy.

...Yasuri, that is. I'm fairly familiar with Ryouga. ^_^

[Kuro]

At some point in the battle, Yasuri might mention Akane and remind Ryoga of the friend zone he's stuck in.

...in which case, ultimate Shishihokodan does come up.

[BitVyper]

Going to need feats for this guy.

...Yasuri, that is. I'm fairly familiar with Ryouga. ^_^

He has at least one clear close range bullet dodge, a lot of high end afterimage blitzing and maaaaaybe a bunch more bullet timing that has a bunch of narrative asterisks where your interpretation depends a lot on how you read his character in that scene.

The shockwave from a punch he put everything into split a thirteen story castle in half down to its foundations and well into the street. He was inside the castle, aiming away from it. He also broke an unbreakable but unfeated sword with casual ease, and made enough air pressure while running to shatter 1000 futuretech (but unfeated, so probably average durability) swords.

In a fight where he had to be super careful not to shatter a very brittle glass sword, he and his opponent levelled Ganryuu island. Happened offscreen though.

He also has a defense piercing shockwave punch

Watch Katanagatari. It’s 12 episodes you really won’t regret.

[Sharpandpointies]

So...I watched this.

It was pretty impressive, but nothing on the same level as Ryouga or that would significantly impair Ryouga, up until the end of the fight. THEN I started seeing stuff that would kind of/maybe hurt Ryouga.

Speedwise, the dudes are fast but the bullet-'dodging' is clearly 'aim-dodging' (and the guy clearly didn't intend to try to dodge everything, just suck it up after getting hit by the rounds). I don't see this as being appreciably faster than Ryouga or possibly even faster at all, when Ryouga does stuff like blitz Mousse, Kunou, and the Principal or accurately pop 50 or so holes in a boulder with his finger in a fraction of a second. Strength-wise, at the end of the fight he gets in some shots that look to be more on the level of NWC high-end people, but still not equal to the best stuff that Ryouga has withstood. Toughness...Yasuri seems to soak damage really well, but he still TAKES the damage (blood flying everywhere, bullets coring through him, etc), whereas Ryouga finds it amusing when *insert Post-Breaking Point Training hits here*.

And PIS off, there's nothing stopping him from using his weapons, either.

Now...I'm basing this on ONE fight, and maybe the series has a ton more stuff that puts Yasuri at Ryouga's level! Feats?

Edit: Okay, you posted while I was watching the video and writing this. That's sounding a lot more into a similar ballpark, at least.

[BitVyper]

He’s stationary until the gun is fired on the first one, but as for the rest, I don’t really intend to debate them, but I would suggest that there’s more happening there than is immediately apparent. I think it’s fairly likely that he was moving specifically with the intent of bleeding out after winning. Also just from Emonzaemon’s other feats, aim dodging is extremely unlikely; he pulled off a ricochet kill against an opponent who was otherwise too lucky to EVER be hit by ranged weapons. As in he could confidently stand in a room with an infinitely accelerating super ball and never get hit by it. Emonzaemon killed him by ricocheting bullets off the ball, which don’t ask me why that worked, but it’s a really high end feat for aiming at a moving target

[Kuro]

Ryoga carries around and tosses an umbrella that weighs hundreds of pounds and he waves it around like a toy sword.

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm cool with that...it's just that with regards to the feats in the fight I posted...

1. His opponent asks 'do you think your movements will make you harder to hit?' Ie, aim-dodging.
2. He gets shot. Lots. Yes, he's planning on dying, he states it flat-out, but he's also clearly trying to throw off the aim at the same time. I mean...he's fighting the guy. Hard-core. He's not just standing there, allowing the dude to shoot him in the head. He obviously wants to make a fight of it (and is wrecking the shooter rather than 'just losing'). The best explanation I can come up with is the same as yours: he intends to die in this fight, but he's looking to pull off a tie, or 'win and then drop dead after winning the fight'.

So, what I saw in that video isn't bullet-timing.

Given what you say about him, I'm 100% sure that Yasuri DOES have better feats. It's just that the video I found doesn't have 'em. Put another way, I don't like his odds against Ryouga based on that particular video, but your list of feats makes things somewhat different.

[Sharpandpointies]

Ryoga carries around and tosses an umbrella that weighs hundreds of pounds and he waves it around like a toy sword.

He uses close to 200 tons of ice like a pair of (albeit extremely heavy) cymbals to squash a couple of idiots (the ice skating duo), then throws it all away...at pretty close to the beginning of the manga. He has to strain like mad to do it, but he pulls it off.

Ryouga is a real monster when it comes to strength.

Edit: he punches Ranma; Ranma flies through the air and makes a 10-12' diameter crater in a cliff-face, as well. Then, when badly hurt and beaten up, he casually picks up a boulder that likely weighs somewhere around 10 tons, like it's nothing (planning on using it as a weapon to beat Ranma's head in).

[BitVyper]

I'm cool with that...it's just that with regards to the feats in the fight I posted...

1. His opponent asks 'do you think your movements will make you harder to hit?' Ie, aim-dodging.
2. He gets shot. Lots. Yes, he's planning on dying, he states it flat-out, but he's also clearly trying to throw off the aim at the same time. I mean...he's fighting the guy. Hard-core. He's not just standing there, allowing the dude to shoot him in the head. He obviously wants to make a fight of it (and is wrecking the shooter rather than 'just losing'). The best explanation I can come up with is the same as yours: he intends to die in this fight, but he's looking to pull off a tie, or 'win and then drop dead after winning the fight'.

So, what I saw in that video isn't bullet-timing.

Given what you say about him, I'm 100% sure that Yasuri DOES have better feats. It's just that the video I found doesn't have 'em. Put another way, I don't like his odds against Ryouga based on that particular video, but your list of feats makes things somewhat different.

That’s the only bullet dodging in the series, but again, he doesn’t move until the gun is fired on the first one, and Emonzaemon’s own feats suggest aim dodging is virtually impossible.

Shichika did also ‘kill’ an immortal martial artist 272 times before they could react, so there’s that.

As for strength, the castle smash is the main feat he has there. I don’t think he wants to wrestle Ryoga though.

He’s also got pretty good fight analysis to the point where he had to hold back a lot lest he immediately exploit the weaknesses of the deviant blades and destroy them when he wasn’t allowed to.

The thing to understand with my suggestion that he wants to get a double kill is thatShichika only barely sees himself as human at all, and only because of the person who Emonzaemon killed. He is reeeeaaally okay with dying as a tool to fulfill her last order.

[Sharpandpointies]

That’s the only bullet dodging in the series, but again, he doesn’t move u TIL the gun is fired on the first one, and Emonzaemon’s own feats suggest aim dodging is virtually impossible.

The first one is a probable bullet-timing, but that's all. The other character's feats do suggest aim-dodging him would be ridiculously difficult...but Yasuri DIDN'T manage to dodge anything, just make sure it didn't kill him (and Emonzaemon flat-out states 'Yeah, that's not going to work' earlier). We can speculate that he COULD have dodged all of those rounds had he been trying to do so, but the fact is that he doesn't.

Now, I'm sure he has better feats even if there's no other bullet dodging in the series. It's just that the feats in THAT vid I found...aren't great, when I consider putting the guy against Ryouga.

Shichika did also ‘kill’ an immortal martial artist 272 times before they could react, so there’s that.

Like this. Now, if he's THAT much of a superspeedster all of the time, even Ranma isn't touching him.

[BitVyper]

Yeah, but there’s a difference between aim dodging goons and aim dodging a speedster with high supernatural accuracy if you want to frame it that way. As far as him getting hit goes, note that Emonzaemon is surprised by the idea that Shichika could dodge ALL of them, not some of them. Also, not dodging, but making sure they hit him just so, would still require bullet time reflexes, just not high end ones, though this is all at close range. Like I said, my case is only that he’s edging into bullet time. I know the feats aren’t great there.

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm totally cool with aim-dodging goons being far lower than aim-dodging people with insane skillz. However, if one reaches the point where one can bullet-time, the skill doesn't matter any more because at that point it becomes more about 'however awesomely he shoots, I still perceive and dodge the bullet after it has been fired', the limiting factor being the speed of the bullet.

As for making sure they hit him non-lethally, that may not be a matter of 'making sure they hit him just so', but rather a matter of partly dodging lethal shots so they don't hit the heart, the forehead, etc. I mean, the shooter basically states that flat-out, saying that Yasuri's attempts at dodging his bullets aren't going to work (clearly the shooter can see the dodge attempts and adjust to them), and they don't - they just leave Yasuri shot up but not, for example, shot in the kidneys, the heart, and the brain.

I mean, it COULD be Yasuri making sure the bullets hit exactly where he wants them to as well. Sure, that's a possibility. It could also be 'he aim-dodges the super-shooter well enough that lethally aimed shots simply don't hit where they're supposed to'.

For myself, I tend to always look at speed stuff conservatively. Mileage, it may vary, etc.

Now, the dude pretty much bullet-times the first shot and then gets shot up when things escalate into rapid-fire, so I'm totally cool with saying 'yeah, into the low-end of bullet-timing'.

[BitVyper]

I'm gonna ditch this post actually. We agree on the first shot being bullet timing, so there's no reason to debate it. Sorry, I didn't see the last point in your post. Everything after the first shot is totally up to interpretation, though I will say that with well over 50 shots being fired and Shichika having less than 15 visible wounds, it certainly SUPPORTS the first shot being bullet time.

But yeah no, Katanagatari is great. My secret ulterior motive here is to get people to watch it so that I can put Shichika's terrifying psychotic sister in fights.

[BitVyper]

And just for fun, here's the fight with the super ball:



Oh hey, now that I watch it again, while he still HIT the superball, the bullets he hit Penguin with were ricocheted off the walls. I think... he embedded bullets in the walls and deflected more bullets off them? That would explain the scene and his comments, at least.