Susan Storm: Invisible Woman Appreciation 2018

[Keyotheseasons]

The reason would be because she established for herself a strong family and as you mature, those relationships outside the family become less important to you.

You make it sound so exclusive. Just because people have families doesn't mean they can no longer have friendships that they value or need to nurture. Sure, needs of the family may take precedence but that doesn't mean that other relationships outside of that dynamic have to be denied to that person in order to be a good parent, sibling, child, etc. If we boil things down we are talking about a fictional character whose fans would like to see more of her outside of her normal setting. I don't see why you think that would be a bad thing, which I assume you do since you seem fine with how Sue has been handled?

What worries me is that some writer is going to get it in his head that the FF sucks because Susan Richards is a mother and loves her husband, so she needs to be transformed into 20 year old lost soul, sleeping around the Marvel universe and creating a saga in her marriage and destroying her family. There are plenty of characters for this, but The Invisbile Girl is not one of them.

If that is the reason why you are worried then I don't really see how your example of Sue meeting with Storm to drink tea would lead or equate to this. I haven't seen anyone in this forum is asking for Sue to have a midlife crisis, buy a motorcycle, make out with younger men and cheat on her husband to get away from her "mundane" life. Sue working for S.H.I.E.L.D and going on a mission that she was perfect for based simply on her skills and abilities was amazing. I think people would just like to see her utilized more outside of the main Fantastic Four book. And that in the main book some focus (not all) could perhaps be shifted and dedicated to fleshing her out further as a character away from the role as wife and mother, which we all know she fills exceptionally well.

[CaptCleghorn]

No, they are just as important as you want them to be. Relationships outside of the family are important especially when someone wants time away and to vent about said family.

Friends are always important. I want to see Sue with friends outside of the FF and how she is in new situations. Really delve into who the character is as an individual.
A lot of character growth can happen when you take a character away from their comfort zone and Sue is missing out on a lot of potentially interesting stories by not having her more involved in the MU.

Wives and mothers have just as much right and interest in having some life outside the family as husbands and fathers. Period.

[mrbrklyn]

You make it sound so exclusive.

It not excusive, it is maturity. The older you get and the more you develop family relations the less you spend time bar hopping and going to parties. Families are the cornerstone of our social existence.

Just because people have families doesn't mean they can no longer have friendships that they value or need to nurture.

It does mean that we spend less time with them and it does mean that they become less important to us. Furthermore, it means that we express our social position within the context of our families. Mature healthy adults spend more time with their families and less time with strangers and outsiders... and we like it that way, as a species. But it is not like Susan has ever been limited. She acts like a rational healthy women who is part of a healthy family.

Sure, needs of the family may take precedence but that doesn't mean that other relationships outside of that dynamic have to be denied

Umm, there is no such thing as a "dynamics outside of the family" when you are part of a healthy family. Your family becomes not just your peer group, but your blood relatives.

to that person in order to be a good parent, sibling, child, etc. If we boil things down we are talking about a fictional characters whose fans would like to see more of her outside of her normal setting.

The fans have been happy with her as she has been developed. She is not in any way borken in needing of a fixing.

I don't see why you think that would be a bad thing, which I assume you do since you seem fine with how Sue has been handled?

If that is the reason why you are worried then I don't really see how your example of Sue meeting with Storm to drink tea would lead or equate to this.

Yeah - it would be and it would be out of character. People would more likely come to her house for social calls. After all, she is the queen of marvel and she has a house, and a kitchen and a family. I don't see Susan Richards as the sort to sit on her phone for hours texting and chatting with her girlfriends. She is not superfical like that.

No one in this forum is asking Sue to have a midlife crisis, buy a motorcycle, make out with younger men and cheat on her husband to get away from her "mundane" life.

Or maybe they are. It is hard to talk for a whole forum. I generally have trouble talking just for myself.

Sue working for S.H.I.E.L.D and going on a mission

Without the FF? Please. Explain to me how you keep Reed, Ben and Johnny from not backing her up? Is she going to lie to Reed and not tell him she was on this mission?

that she was perfect for based simply on her skills and abilities was amazing. I think people would just like to see her utilized more outside of the main Fantastic Four book. And that in the main book some focus (not all) could perhaps be shifted and dedicated to fleshing her out further as a character. There is nothing that is lost by giving her a best friend or a confidant for example.

Where ever Sue goes, Reed, Ben and Johnny aren't far behind... not to mention Franklin and Valery. BTW - she HAS a best freind and confident...his name is Reed Richards.

[mrbrklyn]

Wives and mothers have just as much right and interest in having some life outside the family as husbands and fathers. Period.

yeah and? Maybe we can get a multiverse standoff between the coucil of Reeds with the council of Sues and they can end the known universe... together.

[CaptCleghorn]

yeah and? Maybe we can get a multiverse standoff between the coucil of Reeds with the council of Sues and they can end the known universe... together.

I think we'll work on explaining this one sentence and then we can discuss what we'd like to see for Sue.

[Crimz]

Wives and mothers have just as much right and interest in having some life outside the family as husbands and fathers. Period.

Exactly. 10 char

[mrbrklyn]

172stopit.jpg
http://www.ff1by1.com/wp-content/upl.../172stopit.jpg

[mrbrklyn]

[Crimz]

It not excusive, it is maturity. The older you get and the more you develop family relations the less you spend time bar hopping and going to parties. Families are the cornerstone of our social existence.



It does mean that we spend less time with them and it does mean that they become less important to us. Furthermore, it means that we express our social position within the context of our families. Mature healthy adults spend more time with their families and less time with strangers and outsiders... and we like it that way, as a species. But it is not like Susan has ever been limited. She acts like a rational healthy women who is part of a healthy family.



Umm, there is no such thing as a "dynamics outside of the family" when you are part of a healthy family. Your family becomes not just your peer group, but your blood relatives.



The fans have been happy with her as she has been developed. She is not in any way borken in needing of a fixing.




Yeah - it would be and it would be out of character. People would more likely come to her house for social calls. After all, she is the queen of marvel and she has a house, and a kitchen and a family. I don't see Susan Richards as the sort to sit on her phone for hours texting and chatting with her girlfriends. She is not superfical like that.



Or maybe they are. It is hard to talk for a whole forum. I generally have trouble talking just for myself.



Without the FF? Please. Explain to me how you keep Reed, Ben and Johnny from not backing her up? Is she going to lie to Reed and not tell him she was on this mission?



Where ever Sue goes, Reed, Ben and Johnny aren't far behind... not to mention Franklin and Valery. BTW - she HAS a best freind and confident...his name is Reed Richards.

I’m not going to go over all of this but some points:

Friends are not superficial and if yours are then you are friends with the wrong people.

Actually, it’s healthy to have friendships and hang out with people outside of the family.

Reed has a best friend outside of the family besides Ben and it’s T’Challa. Plus he is very close with Tony Stark. So why the double standard? Wives can have friends and do things away from husbands and family. It’s a really misogynistic trope in media for them not to while the husband does. Look at the Simpsons where Homer has all these friends and adventures away from the family and Marge. But Marge doesn’t really have that. It’s rare that she has an adventure like Homer does.

It’s a trope that Sue should not be apart of and one that needs to go away.

[mrbrklyn]

I think we'll work on explaining this one sentence and then we can discuss what we'd like to see for Sue.

What I am saying is that I reject the idea that Susan has been treated any less respectfully than any of the male menbers of the Fantastic Four, and so your exclamation of civil liberties is unwarranted in this case. Any idea that Susan Richards has any less friends or less of a life than Reed is not in line with the publication record. And as I said previously, the family has each other, especially Sue and Reed, which has a mature family, soon to be grandparents. They don't want or need complex "friendships" like they are in High School. You are going to keep saying that she is abused and lonely. I am going to keep reminding you she is the matriach of the Fantastic Four and the Richards Family. This is how working families function. She is not going by herself to run a mission for shield without the rest of the family. If this was Reed, we wouldn't be discussing this, but we are arguing over the rolls of women in society, and you are going to continue that Susan needs to behavor other than her character as a healthy and beloved mother of chidlren and a wife and she does not. She doesn't need to artificially supliment that. She is comfortable in her role, and secure in it and happy. She has always been portrayed that way. If anything every female character in Marvel should be jelous of her and they have respected her, and so does her fans.

Books that involve her development and growth have been the most popular. Franklins birth, the miscaraige, emotional traumas, power in growth, familiy conflicts etc, loss of her brother, etc; These have been the halmarks of the FF title. She doesn't have a need to go out an play with Kitty Pryde.

What do they talk about?

Susan "Well, this week Franklin created a new universe and this has been getting out of hand, and we are trying to figure out how to help him without detroying the Universe. Reed is working to contain his powers without doing another mind wipe"

Kitty, "Well I am so sick of Colossus quietly mocking me when I lead the X-Men. I feel so persecuted!".

Susan (rolling her eyes), "It will work out dear.. excuse me. I need to go run. Johnny just found the Silver Surfer and ran out the window with Valery giving him instruction to up open an inter-dimensional portal! Can't they ever stay out of trouble! Why can't Reed keep his play things secured! I swear that time she spent with Doctor Doom and that crush on Christopher Doom has made her reckless".

To paraphrase Johnny Storm, they are the Fantastic Four, not some two bit operation like the Avengers. Susan has friends like adults have friends. As adults, adults with children, friends are not the center of our lives. They are background noise at best. Our families are the foundations of our lives. Wherever Susan goes, for sure the Thing is not far behind.

[Phoenixx9]

172stopit.jpg
http://www.ff1by1.com/wp-content/upl.../172stopit.jpg

I always liked this panel and thought it so unique and original! Thanks for posting it--I have not seen it in many years!

[CaptCleghorn]

What I am saying is that I reject the idea that Susan has been treated any less respectfully than any of the male menbers of the Fantastic Four, and so your exclamation of civil liberties is unwarranted in this case. Any idea that Susan Richards has any less friends or less of a life than Reed is not in line with the publication record. And as I said previously, the family has each other, especially Sue and Reed, which has a mature family, soon to be grandparents. They don't want or need complex "friendships" like they are in High School. You are going to keep saying that she is abused and lonely. I am going to keep reminding you she is the matriach of the Fantastic Four and the Richards Family. This is how working families function. She is not going by herself to run a mission for shield without the rest of the family. If this was Reed, we wouldn't be discussing this, but we are arguing over the rolls of women in society, and you are going to continue that Susan needs to behavor other than her character as a healthy and beloved mother of chidlren and a wife and she does not. She doesn't need to artificially supliment that. She is comfortable in her role, and secure in it and happy. She has always been portrayed that way. If anything every female character in Marvel should be jelous of her and they have respected her, and so does her fans.

Books that involve her development and growth have been the most popular. Franklins birth, the miscaraige, emotional traumas, power in growth, familiy conflicts etc, loss of her brother, etc; These have been the halmarks of the FF title. She doesn't have a need to go out an play with Kitty Pryde.

What do they talk about?

Susan "Well, this week Franklin created a new universe and this has been getting out of hand, and we are trying to figure out how to help him without detroying the Universe. Reed is working to contain his powers without doing another mind wipe"

Kitty, "Well I am so sick of Colossus quietly mocking me when I lead the X-Men. I feel so persecuted!".

Susan (rolling her eyes), "It will work out dear.. excuse me. I need to go run. Johnny just found the Silver Surfer and ran out the window with Valery giving him instruction to up open an inter-dimensional portal! Can't they ever stay out of trouble! Why can't Reed keep his play things secured! I swear that time she spent with Doctor Doom and that crush on Christopher Doom has made her reckless".

To paraphrase Johnny Storm, they are the Fantastic Four, not some two bit operation like the Avengers. Susan has friends like adults have friends. As adults, adults with children, friends are not the center of our lives. They are background noise at best. Our families are the foundations of our lives. Wherever Susan goes, for sure the Thing is not far behind.

If you think a Sue/Kitty teamup would be the two of them bitching about men, then I think the "exclamation of civil liberties" is needed more than ever for some people here.

[Keyotheseasons]

She is not going by herself to run a mission for shield without the rest of the family. If this was Reed, we wouldn't be discussing this, but we are arguing over the rolls of women in society, and you are going to continue that Susan needs to behavor other than her character as a healthy and beloved mother of chidlren and a wife and she does not.

I don't know if you are unaware that this already happened, but Sue has gone on several missions for S.H.I.E.L.D by herself and has never told Reed or Ben about it and in the issue where this is revealed even lies by omission to Johnny about it. Sue does offer Reed and Ben's help, but quickly says herself that she doesn't want them to know what she has been doing after being asked if she was ready to be questioned her about her outings and even says "Why should anyone automatically get to see every side of Sue Richards?" Sue also has and apparently wants a part of her life that is her own. And these are the types of things that I would like to see a little more of. Sue was kickass in the entire issue and never had to rely on anyone else to help her do her job.





I still want to see her primarily with her family, but more moments like these would also be appreciated it because it makes her seem like an actual person. No one solely devotes themselves to others.

[mrbrklyn]

I don't know if you are unaware that this already happened, but Sue has gone on several missions for S.H.I.E.L.D by herself and has never told Reed or Ben about it and in the issue where this is revealed even lies by omission to Johnny about it. Sue does offer Reed and Ben's help, but quickly says herself that she doesn't want them to know what she has been doing after being asked if she was ready to be questioned her about her outings and even says "Why should anyone automatically get to see every side of Sue Richards?" Sue also has and apparently wants a part of her life that is her own. And these are the types of things that I would like to see a little more of. Sue was kickass in the entire issue and never had to rely on anyone else to help her do her job.
I still want to see her primarily with her family, but more moments like these would also be appreciated it because it makes her seem like an actual person. No one solely devotes themselves to others.

Yeah, if that is true they will write it out. Susan Richards would never lie to her husband and then disappear. It destroys the fabric of the character and the FF. Then again, the writer for the FF currently is probably even worst. An ACTUAL person wouldn't do this. It is just not how real married people behave, unless they are looking for a divorce.

Sue also has and apparently wants a part of her life that is her own. And these are the types of things that I would like to see a little more of. Sue was kickass in the entire issue and never had to rely on anyone else to help her do her job.

No, that is Mark Waid being bored and the FF editorial staff thinking of deep sixing the FF because of an IP dispute with Fox. Under normal circumstances, that story would never happen. Susan hiding a whole part of her life from Reed? Please. If this is the kind of thing you want to see then you want to see the end of the FF and the destruction of Sue Richards...

[Crimz]

Yeah, if that is true they will write it out. Susan Richards would never lie to her husband and then disappear. It destroys the fabric of the character and the FF. Then again, the writer for the FF currently is probably even worst. An ACTUAL person wouldn't do this. It is just not how real married people behave, unless they are looking for a divorce.



No, that is Mark Waid being bored and the FF editorial staff thinking of deep sixing the FF because of an IP dispute with Fox. Under normal circumstances, that story would never happen. Susan hiding a whole part of her life from Reed? Please. If this is the kind of thing you want to see then you want to see the end of the FF and the destruction of Sue Richards...

Wanting to have something that's just for yourself is healthy even in marriage; whether it be friends that aren't friends with your spouse, a job, or any activities that you like doing. It's healthy to have your own things going on in a marriage.

What's funny about you saying that her SHIELD thing being out of character and apparently "abandoning Reed" is that he does it all the time. The Illuminati is a prime example. So there is definitely a double standard when it comes to Sue. The spy story isn't some evil ploy to destroy the team and family, it's Sue having her own adventure and it worked really well. It was really fun and I think things like it should happen more often for Sue.

What you are describing is a codependent relationship, saying that Sue should rely on Reed for all of her needs social or otherwise. That is the opposite of healthy.

Sue deserves to guest appear just as much as any other character does and now that the kids are teens there is absolutely no excuse for her not to.