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  1. #1516
    Extraordinary Member Winterboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Fandango View Post
    Always hated this cover.
    Really?

    She is gorgeous!

    ...and who cares about Namor?
    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
    Adrian Toomes aka the Vulture


    "Natasha Romanoff, A.K.A. Black Widow - ex-KGB, formerly with S.H.I.E.L.D...Probably the brains of this operation.I have followed her career, and she has been consistently UNDERRATED."

  2. #1517
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Fandango View Post
    Always hated this cover.
    Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterboy View Post
    Really?

    She is gorgeous!

    ...and who cares about Namor?
    I hate the way her and Namor are posed together as it makes her look like his object.

    It's one of the problems I've always had whenever Namor turns up.
    Be sure to check out the Invisible Woman appreciation thread!

  3. #1518
    Extraordinary Member Winterboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Me too.



    I hate the way her and Namor are posed together as it makes her look like his object.

    It's one of the problems I've always had whenever Namor turns up.

    Namor is an idiot.
    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
    Adrian Toomes aka the Vulture


    "Natasha Romanoff, A.K.A. Black Widow - ex-KGB, formerly with S.H.I.E.L.D...Probably the brains of this operation.I have followed her career, and she has been consistently UNDERRATED."

  4. #1519
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    how is everyone liking the direction of the new comic so far and Sue's representation? I know it's a bit early to say but still curious.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  5. #1520
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterboy View Post
    Namor is an idiot.
    I'm fine with Namor whenever other heroes treat him the way the should - like how you would treat an ******* character. I don't like whenever they go on like he's this honorable hero and are shocked when he does something morally questionable.

    Sue should not like Namor at all. It was fine that she had a little crush on him in the Lee/Kirby days, but that plot has overstayed it's welcome. This is a man who treats her like some trophy to put on his mantle, and object. He threatens to kill her husband and brother often and has attempted to do so. Why would Sue ever be interested in him after that?

    It's tired and lazy to ever do the Sue/Namor thing again. Hickman did it right with Sue being tired of Namor's crap and completely uninterested in any way. That's how writers should view their relation from here on out. That she tolerates Namor for the sake of relations between the surface and Atlantis, no more.


    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    how is everyone liking the direction of the new comic so far and Sue's representation? I know it's a bit early to say but still curious.


    I'll let you know when he does something with her. She has only been in one issue and it's way too soon to say. I'm hoping the next issue gives us an idea of how he will handle her.
    Last edited by Crimz; 10-23-2018 at 04:40 PM.
    Be sure to check out the Invisible Woman appreciation thread!

  6. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Fandango View Post
    Always hated this cover.
    I was going to avoid saying that, but it is true. Both of these examples are bizzarre representations of womens anatomy.... to say the least.

  7. #1522
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Jean and Sue have a lot in common and depending on what adult Jean is like (I haven't really read X-Men since Morrison's run), the two could easily reconnect. After all, they were both 'the girl" on a superhero team and were both involved with the team leader. Additionally, both gained incredible amounts of power and that power has yet to be quantitatively defined. Both are also very familiar with world destroying events.
    Really? Jean has been married for 40 years, has two children, suffered a miscarraige....

  8. #1523
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I'm fine with Namor whenever other heroes treat him the way the should - like how you would treat an ******* character. I don't like whenever they go on like he's this honorable hero and are shocked when he does something morally questionable.

    Sue should not like Namor at all. It was fine that she had a little crush on him in the Lee/Kirby days, but that plot has overstayed it's welcome. This is a man who treats her like some trophy to put on his mantle, and object. He threatens to kill her husband and brother often and has attempted to do so. Why would Sue ever be interested in him after that?

    It's tired and lazy to ever do the Sue/Namor thing again. Hickman did it right with Sue being tired of Namor's crap and completely uninterested in any way. That's how writers should view their relation from here on out. That she tolerates Namor for the sake of relations between the surface and Atlantis, no more.






    I'll let you know when he does something with her. She has only been in one issue and it's way too soon to say. I'm hoping the next issue gives us an idea of how he will handle her.
    lolol ok please do... she was the first marvel character I fell in love with so I want her treated right.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  9. #1524
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    how is everyone liking the direction of the new comic so far and Sue's representation? I know it's a bit early to say but still curious.
    Johnny, Ben, and Reed (and Alicia and the kids as well) have all had moments so far in these two issues. Obviously MTIO 11 is going to add to Sue's current portrayal. Hopefully, anyway. But she's hasn't gotten anything but a few supportive lines and the humanizing but not quite awe-inspiring musical intervention.

    I'm hoping we see some particularly impressive actions in the next issue (or two). I also expect some grown-up Sue handling the boys and keeping them in line before the wedding and inner-girl Sue bonding with Alicia beofer the wedding.

  10. #1525
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    Really? Jean has been married for 40 years, has two children, suffered a miscarraige....
    There is more to Sue than that and they have common experiences:

    Being the only women on their respective teams for while
    Have been in the hero business for a long time
    Having interactions and links to alien races
    Both have powers that rely on concentration and willpower
    Both have grown exponentially from their 60s iterations
    They have similar personalities


    Sue and Jean have quite a bit in common and it would be great to have them interact and team-up sometime.
    Be sure to check out the Invisible Woman appreciation thread!

  11. #1526
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Johnny, Ben, and Reed (and Alicia and the kids as well) have all had moments so far in these two issues. Obviously MTIO 11 is going to add to Sue's current portrayal. Hopefully, anyway. But she's hasn't gotten anything but a few supportive lines and the humanizing but not quite awe-inspiring musical intervention.
    .

    She might have more dialog than any of them though.. which overall, is unfortunate. They should all had talked more

  12. #1527
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Johnny, Ben, and Reed (and Alicia and the kids as well) have all had moments so far in these two issues. Obviously MTIO 11 is going to add to Sue's current portrayal. Hopefully, anyway. But she's hasn't gotten anything but a few supportive lines and the humanizing but not quite awe-inspiring musical intervention.

    I'm hoping we see some particularly impressive actions in the next issue (or two). I also expect some grown-up Sue handling the boys and keeping them in line before the wedding and inner-girl Sue bonding with Alicia beofer the wedding.
    I wish stories would interject action right out the gate. sometime those slow burning stories can get annoying.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #1528
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Whatever their relationship - and I liked the status quo of Hickman's Namor/Sue stuff - that cover gives a very wrong impression.

    I am one of those who cares about Namor. And I think that the friendship he has with Susan is more than just lechery. It's just one of those things that most writers can't quite get right.

  14. #1529
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Given the long history of the 'friendship' or not, I don't totally agree that is what Hickman's Sue/Namor showed us. Everyone also forgets the times they worked together well, as well as the fact that Sue is so Super, she is one of the few land dwellers that "gets" Namor. I think its 50/50 that Namor could truly love her or she would be the trophy. I've read and seen both sides for decades. Sue comes closest to a version of the one that got away, from Namor.

    I don't think any of Namor's relationships with women, other than the few (2?) he married, came close to his feelings for Sue. We may hate that or think it something else, but I'm going to take it at face value.

    Most relationships are complicated.
    Most superhero relationships are complicated.
    Most Surface/Underwater relationship are very complicated.

    Remember, or at least to my way of thinking, Comic books are a lot like Soap Operas.
    Characters all/mostly move through 3 main personas or personalities.

    Victim - Abuser - Redemptionist. There is no particular order and no guarantee that a character goes through all three before starting over - some characters don't always hit all three notes, but most do.

  15. #1530
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    We could certainly go on ad nauseum about the Sue/Namor relationship. IMO, there is something there Sue respects and in some way, loves. He's a pig. I get that. I also know my wife's old college roommate whom I still flirt with constantly. even after 35 years. But there's a set idea of we flirt and nothing happens. There could (and probably should) be some mature themes in this pairing.

    I also think this relationship suffers from the shifting timeline. What was presented in the early 60s about Namor and Sue before the engagement was chaste. At some later time, changing social norms could easily have put a different spin on it. With a sliding timeline, we'd probably see Namor's return right now being soon after 9 11. And as time goes on, this event happens later and later. How intimate did Sue and Namor get? I don't know. I've stated I don't want to know for the reasons I've stated. But there's something there which is very tough to define by the multiple writers trying to do so as opposed to real life where it's only two people and even that small number screw these things up often.

    I'd welcome an adult discussion about the relationship. It's certainly one which the different tones we all have for these characters can be expressed, hopefully, in a constructive sense.

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