The Jason Todd Reread (pre- and post-crisis)

[Sergard]

This thread is part of the Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight, Prince of Gotham Appreciation 2019 thread. Its purpose is to give us Jason Todd fans a place where we can (re-)read and discuss old Jason Todd stories. (Please keep in mind that – since this is part of an appreciation thread – the appreciation thread rules still apply. You can find them at the end of the post.)

I decided to separate this discussion from the appreciation thread because it's tremendously easier to follow the reread discussion and to find particular parts of it later on.

The reread starts with Jason's pre-crisis appearances. We'll follow his journey in Batman and Detective Comics. Further, there are some guest appearances in other titles that we'll probably discuss. The reading order is chronologically starting with Jason's introduction in Batman #357, followed by Detective Comics #524, then back to Batman #358, … (I think you get the point.) Below you find a table that provides a good overview of the pre-crisis issues and their releases.

Schedule: we discuss two* issues every other week on Saturday

(If wished we can change the schedule later on.)
*issues without Jason aren’t discussed separately but in combination with the next follow-up issue that contains an appearance of Jason.

currently discussed (8 June): Detective Comics #533 & Batman 367
next time discussed (to be announced): Detective Comics #534 & Batman 368

Further information:

• A link to this thread can be found in the OP of the Jason Todd Appreciation Thread.
• Links to the individual issue discussions will be added in the table below.

Pre-crisis issues

release	Batman	Detective Comics	Guest Appearance
March-83	Batman #357 (page 1)	Detective Comics #524 (page 1)
April-83	Batman #358 (page 2) only Jason’s mother	Detective Comics #525 (page 2)
May-83	Batman #359 (page 3)	Detective Comics #526 (page 3)
June-83	Batman #360 (page 3)	Detective Comics #527 (page 3)
July-83	Batman #361 (page 4)	Detective Comics #528 (page 4)
August-83	Batman #362 (page 4) no Jason	Detective Comics #529 (page 4)
September-83	Batman #363 (page 5)	Detective Comics #530 (page 5)
October-83	Batman #364 (page 5)	Detective Comics #531 (page 5)
November-83	Batman #365 (page 5)	Detective Comics #532 (page 5) no Jason
December-83	Batman #366 (page 5)	Detective Comics #533 (page 6)
January-84	Batman #367 (page 6)	Detective Comics #534
February-84	Batman #368:	Detective Comics #535
March-84	Batman #369: no Jason	Detective Comics #536: no Jason
April-84	Batman #370	Detective Comics #537
May-84	Batman #371	Detective Comics #538
June-84	Batman #372	Detective Comics #539
July-84	Batman #373	Detective Comics #540
August-84	Batman #374	Detective Comics #541
September-84	Batman #375	Detective Comics #542
October-84	Batman #376	Detective Comics #543
November-84	Batman #377	Detective Comics #544
December-84	Batman #378	Detective Comics #545: no Jason
January-85	Batman #379	Detective Comics #546
February-85	Batman #380	Detective Comics #547
March-85	Batman #381	Detective Comics #548
April-85	Batman #382	Detective Comics #549: no Jason
May-85	Batman #383	Detective Comics #550: no Jason
June-85	Batman #384	Detective Comics #551
July-85	Batman #385	Detective Comics #552
August-85	Batman #386: no Jason	Detective Comics #553	Superman Annual #11
September-85	Batman #387	Detective Comics #554
October-85	Batman #388	Detective Comics #555
November-85	Batman #389	Detective Comics #556
December-85	Batman #390	Detective Comics #557	Blue Devil #19
January-86	Batman #391	Detective Comics #558
February-86	Batman #392: no Jason	Detective Comics #559: no Jason
March-86	Batman #393: no Jason	Detective Comics #560	New Teen Titans #18
April-86	Batman #394	Detective Comics #561	New Teen Titans #19
May-86	Batman #395	Detective Comics #562	New Teen Titans #20
June-86	Batman #396	Detective Comics #563	New Teen Titans #21
July-86	Batman #397	Detective Comics #564	New Teen Titans #22: no Jason
August-86	Batman #398	Detective Comics #565	Batman Annual #10
			New Teen Titans #23: no Jason
September-86	Batman #399	Detective Comics #566
October-86	Batman #400	Detective Comics #567*: no Jason	New Teen Titans #24
November-86	Batman #401*	Detective Comics #568*	New Teen Titans #25: no Jason
December-86	Batman #402*	Detective Comics #569*	New Teen titans #26
January-87	Batman #403*	Detective Comics #570*	New Teen titans #27
February-87		Detective Comics #571*	New Teen titans #28
March-87		Detective Comics #572*	New Teen titans #29
April-87		Detective Comics #573*	New Teen titans #30
May-87		Detective Comics #574*	New Teen titans #31

* Officially post-crisis, but story-wise in a grey zone


DC Forum Appreciation Thread rules:

1) No negative comments about the honoree(s) of this thread. It's an appreciation thread, not a non-appreciation one.

2) No negative discussion about any competitors of the honoree(s) of this thread. No ifs, ands, or buts. Find another non-appreciation thread to do that, just not here.

3) No negative comments about other versions of the character. For example, if you like the DCU version of Cyborg, but hate the DCnU version (or visa versa), just appreciate the earlier version and keep your comments about the latter to yourself.

[Sergard]

This week (26 January 2019) we discuss

Batman #357: "Squid"

Summary:

Featuring the first appearance of Jason Todd and Killer Croc. The Squid arrives in Gotham City, intent on taking over its underworld and trap the Batman.

Source: DC


Writer: Gerry Conway

Penciler: Don Newton

Inker: Alfredo Alcala

Colourist: Adrienne Roy

Letterer: Ben Oda

Editors: Nicola Cuti, Len Wein

[Sergard]

Preview:

[Sergard]

There is not a lot of Jason to see in this issue but I still had some fun reading it.
Red seems to be Jason's color from the get-go - except for the hair. I often see people writing that Jason was a redhead pre-crisis.
But not with all the will in the world this can be considered red hair.

Regarding the rest of the issue: I don't like the Squid. I don't like goofy villains in general. And a fat little guy with a speech impediment and a stupid haircut is a textbook example of a goofy villain.
Killer Croc, on the other hand, is introduced very nicely by being this mysterious and dangerous man who doesn't show his face.
It's interesting to read pre-crisis Batman. He talks a lot, isn't scary and has no problem asking other people for help.

[Zaresh]

Geez, it ends in a cliffhanger.

I think, for an old issue, it can be read alright. I wonder why some people have problems reading issues from that age. I mean, I see the differences in narrative and style, but this one, for example, isn't heavy. Doug Moench's Moon Knight is way heavier (I get why people have an issue with those, even if I love that stuff); but I know that's not the standard: this is not the first issue from the 80's Batman that I read, and this is more like the standard.

Yeah, Bruce is a likeable character in these years, as far as I know (and recall from the little I've read). It's balanced, same as the TAS Bruce. And I guess, by how this issue went, that he had a very large ensemble of supporting cast. But as the years came, and the concept of the "gimdark Batman works alone" gained fans, I guess he was losing and loosening all those characters, step by step, even before finishing the decade. I didn't know this reporter, for example. Bruce is less prone to ask for help = less side characters. Which is a pity, because those characters can tell a lot about the main character in a story, as well as being the source of a lot of small stories.

About the villain, I think it could be very easy to rescue him from the purgatory. Look at him: he's extravagant and cheesy, but he's also a master spy, an informant, and has some speech tic. Not, change him into some asian Mob boss that suspiciously looks like some North Corea guy, make him less dumb, smarter and actually slippery like a squid. Make him a spook working the Mafia in Gotham to riot the city for his country as well as his own benefit. Hold all his colourfulness, but make him hard to bring into justice by making more of his business legal, and bring conflict to the table by making a problem to unmask his spooky plots because no one in the government wants to acknowledge that they know of the spy activities in the city.

There you have, an interesting villain for a story arc that can last for a while.

As for Killer Croc, I liked him, seems like an interesting character; but I was hoping for him to hold a more active role in the story. I think the whole issue was a nice read, but it jumped from plot to plot a bit too much in the middle. I still can't figure out what's the link between the circus where the Todds work at, and the Squid main plot.

Lastly, I love dramatic entrances like this one.

[Aahz]

I really like the comics from that era, with the long running subplots like Gordons health and the corrupt mayor, and a Batman who is not completely over powered and can loose against thugs when he is out numbered.

[Coco Loco]

About the villain, I think it could be very easy to rescue him from the purgatory. Look at him: he's extravagant and cheesy, but he's also a master spy, an informant, and has some speech tic. Not, change him into some asian Mob boss that suspiciously looks like some North Corea guy, make him less dumb, smarter and actually slippery like a squid. Make him a spook working the Mafia in Gotham to riot the city for his country as well as his own benefit. Hold all his colourfulness, but make him hard to bring into justice by making more of his business legal, and bring conflict to the table by making a problem to unmask his spooky plots because no one in the government wants to acknowledge that they know of the spy activities in the city.

The Squid actually made a return in the New 52, during the Manapul/ Buccalleto Detective run. He was pretty much the same dude minus the speech impediment.