The Jason Todd Reread (pre- and post-crisis)

[Aahz]

I checked it, Damian was actually allready in the final issue of RIP driving the Batmobile together with Alfred, but how it came to this, and why Talia just left him there is to me still not really clear.

But R.I.P. is imo an almost unreadable mess.

[Coco Loco]

About the villain, I think it could be very easy to rescue him from the purgatory. Look at him: he's extravagant and cheesy, but he's also a master spy, an informant, and has some speech tic. Not, change him into some asian Mob boss that suspiciously looks like some North Corea guy, make him less dumb, smarter and actually slippery like a squid. Make him a spook working the Mafia in Gotham to riot the city for his country as well as his own benefit. Hold all his colourfulness, but make him hard to bring into justice by making more of his business legal, and bring conflict to the table by making a problem to unmask his spooky plots because no one in the government wants to acknowledge that they know of the spy activities in the city.

The Squid actually made a return in the New 52, during the Manapul/ Buccalleto Detective run. He was pretty much the same dude minus the speech impediment.

[Coco Loco]

I'm surprised that the Todds are still hanging around. I'm reading Jason's pre-crisis introduction for the first time. The post-crisis introduction will always be my favorite, but I kind of dig pre-crisis Jason too. And even though people back then hated Jason for copying Dick's origin, looking at the whole story retrospective, I like it. Years have passed since the tragic death of Dick's parents and now he meets a new "Flying" family with a young shy (at least Jason looks very shy in the one panel of the issue he appears in) son who isn't much older than him back then. And history is going to repeat itself.

But I expected that Trina and Joseph Todd would die a little faster - like in the same issue they were introduced in. On the other hand it's nice to have a little bit of interactions with them to see what kind of persons they are. I wonder why DC changed their names post-crisis. Sure, they were completely different people but Jason was allowed to keep his name.

Joe was more or less a cipher but Trina had some personality. The post-Crisis parents were total blank slates, as they were dead before Bruce and Jason met. I was listening to a podcast recently with Denny O’Neil where he expressed misgivings over the way the post-Crisis origin played out. The notion of making Jason rougher around the edges wasn’t a bad one but it never seemed like creative had a consistent idea of who the character was. Mike W. Barr had him running around making awful puns, and Max Collins teased the idea of him being a street kid but basically resolved that in a single story.

[Zaresh]

The Squid actually made a return in the New 52, during the Manapul/ Buccalleto Detective run. He was pretty much the same dude minus the speech impediment.

Geeez. Really, what a way to miss a chance for a good remake of a character.

[TheCape]

I decided to join to the reread week and i have already caught up. there were two pretty good issues, The Squid is not a very fascinating villain, but his weirdness entertained me. There wasn't much of Jason in this issues, but it was well written and paced, Gerry Conway was one of my favorite Spider-Man and is good to see that he did a good job with the Dark Knight too.

P.S: Batman got beating by normal goons? lol that definitely doesn't happen this days

[Sergard]

This week (9 February 2019) we discuss

Batman #358: "Don't Mess With Killer Croc"

Summary:

With the Squid eliminated, Killer Croc appoints himself the new head of the Gotham Underground as Batman puts together the pieces of Killer Croc's involvement in the Squid's death.

Source: DC


Writer: Gerry Conway

Penciler: Curt Swan

Inker: Rodin Rodriguez

Colourist: Adrienne Roy

Letterer: Ben Oda

Editors: Nicola Cuti, Len Wein



Notes:

• The Batman & Flash sale ends on 2/11/2019. For example, "Batman: Second Chances" (introduction of post-crisis Jason) and "Batman: The Caped Crusader" Vol. 1 (continuation of post-crisis Robin Jason in "Batman") are discounted.
• Jason does not appear in Batman #358 (apart from one flashback panel which only shows his back). But there is a nice scene between Dick and Trina Todd - so let's call this a more quite week. Especially since most Jason Todd fans here are probably waiting for the Red Hood: Outlaw #31 preview.

[Sergard]

Preview pages:

[kjn]

Not following along, but I think it's cool that you've started a reread as well!

[Sergard]

I decided to join to the reread week and i have already caught up. [...]

Welcome to the thread.

Not following along, but I think it's cool that you've started a reread as well!

Thank you. I really got inspired when I saw your "The Wonder Woman Golden Age Reread" thread.


Regarding Batman #358:

I loved the little dialogue between Dick and Trina. At this point I'm surprised that Jason is going to end up with Bruce and not with Dick. But so far Jason hasn't said a word. So maybe he and Bruce will have a better connection than Bruce' immediate dislike of Trina. It's obvious I'm missing context since Bruce seems upset about something Vicki and Selina did before Jason was introduced.

I feel like the rest of the story didn't age that well. Reading it nowadays, everything seems a little cliché. On the other hand, the issue was published in 1983. Back then, it probably was better received by readers. Having a tobacconists' club and seeing Gordon smoking a pipe seems so old-fashioned. (Although Batman and Gordon reminded me of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson in that scene)
And Croc stealing some random super high-tech computer to prove his worth by hiding beneath a car (how is that even possible by his body size?) and "masquerading" as security guard (I can't believe nobody noticed, he didn't even hide his face) didn't grab me at all.

The scene in the cave with Specs was okay although the man gave in pretty fast. Nowadays, writers and artists probably would emphasize Specs' own mental terror more.

The Squid, Croc and Specs all have a similar theme going on. They are all looked down at but (maybe even because of that) are ambitious to ascend in their rank. While Squid and Specs just feel greedy and power-hungry, Croc has the additional motive to escape his past and bad treatment by others because of his looks. I don't feel sorry for Squid and Specs. But seeing Croc destroying his "safe space" because it was tainted by Batman's break-in shows that there is more to Croc than his criminal intents.

[TheCape]

Welcome to the thread.



Thank you. I really got inspired when I saw your "The Wonder Woman Golden Age Reread" thread.


Regarding Batman #358:

I loved the little dialogue between Dick and Trina. At this point I'm surprised that Jason is going to end up with Bruce and not with Dick. But so far Jason hasn't said a word. So maybe he and Bruce will have a better connection than Bruce' immediate dislike of Trina. It's obvious I'm missing context since Bruce seems upset about something Vicki and Selina did before Jason was introduced.

I feel like the rest of the story didn't age that well. Reading it nowadays, everything seems a little cliché. On the other hand, the issue was published in 1983. Back then, it probably was better received by readers. Having a tobacconists' club and seeing Gordon smoking a pipe seems so old-fashioned. (Although Batman and Gordon reminded me of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson in that scene)
And Croc stealing some random super high-tech computer to prove his worth by hiding beneath a car (how is that even possible by his body size?) and "masquerading" as security guard (I can't believe nobody noticed, he didn't even hide his face) didn't grab me at all.

The scene in the cave with Specs was okay although the man gave in pretty fast. Nowadays, writers and artists probably would emphasize Specs' own mental terror more.

The Squid, Croc and Specs all have a similar theme going on. They are all looked down at but (maybe even because of that) are ambitious to ascend in their rank. While Squid and Specs just feel greedy and power-hungry, Croc has the additional motive to escape his past and bad treatment by others because of his looks. I don't feel sorry for Squid and Specs. But seeing Croc destroying his "safe space" because it was tainted by Batman's break-in shows that there is more to Croc than his criminal intents.

The scene between Trina and Dick was my favorite of the issue, some of the stuff of this comics is pretty ridiculous like Croc getting past of those guards (that's some Agent 47 stealth there lol), but Waylon manage to be compelling in spite of it, as you i did enjoy the apartment scene at the end, with Croc tearing apart his safe heaven and running to the sewers.

I

[Zaresh]

Bumping this thread just to say that I'll read last week's issue and this weeks as soon as I can tomorrow .

[Sergard]

Sorry for being late with the new discussion.

This week (16 February 2019) we discuss

Detective Comics #525: "Confrontation"

Summary:

After a tiresome encounter with Killer Croc, Batman and Robin discover that Killer Croc has ties to an extortion ring.

Source: DC


Writer: Gerry Conway

Penciler: Dan Jurgens

Inker: Dick Giordano

Colourist: Adrienne Roy

Letterer: Ben Oda

Editors: Nicola Cuti, Len Wein

[Sergard]

Preview:

[Sergard]

The issue was okay, I guess. Nothing that got me really excited.
Jason is finally saying something. And it's cute that the first thing he does is asking what Wonder Girl is really like. Jason was destined to end up with an Amazon on his team.
Although pre-crisis Jason would probably be scared to death of Artemis.

When Dick says "You remind me of someone I used to know a long, long time ago." he's talking about himself, right? I didn't catch that at first. I'm also a little bit mad at him that he asked Jason's parents for their help on capturing Killer Croc. Killer Croc nearly killed Batman - so involving the Todds in that fight sounds like an incredible bad idea. Dick, of all people, should know that.

I'm definitely missing some context with the Bruce, Selina and Vicky Vale stuff. I can't say for sure if Bruce said all that insensitive stuff to Vicky because he wanted to get rid of her or if he really didn't know better.

I'm disappointed that Killer Croc immediately gets branded as "insane" and thrown in the "lunatic" category together with Joker and Two-Face.

[Sergard]

This time (2 March - 15 March) we discuss Batman #359 and Detective Comics #526

Batman #359: "Hunt"

Summary:

Featuring the origin of Killer Croc! Batman searches for the whereabouts of Killer Croc while Croc himself breaks into Gotham City Jail to take care of the last obstacle in his path toward ruling the Gotham Underground.

creative team

Writer: Gerry Conway

Penciler: Dan Jurgens

Inker: Dick Giordano

Colourist: Adrienne Roy

Letterer: Ben Oda

Editors: Nicola Cuti, Len Wein