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  1. #31
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Peter David has responded (via Facebook):

    Bill Maher has informed us, both on Twitter and again last night, that comic books are for kids and that fans of them are basically stunted individuals who are unable to accept adulthood.

    So let's talk about fans.

    Fans love to argue. They are particularly big on arguing who their heroes can defeat. And periodically they gather in large crowds, sometimes numbering over 50,000. They pay ridiculous entry fees to get in, and many of them dress up like their favorites. In the places where they gather, they cheer on their respective faves, chant together, eat and hang together. They buy a ton of merchandise, dropping hundreds of dollars at a time. And if they're lucky, they get autographs and go home happy. Hell, on rare occasions they even attend parades dedicated to their heroes.

    And that's just Mets fans.

    It's also Yankees fans, and Phillies fans, and Dodgers fans, and Jets and Giants fans, and Knicks fans, and so on throughout the country.

    Hell, Bill Maher even profits off it, since he bought a minority share of the Mets in 2012.

    And all these games...they involve balls. Isn't that interesting? Large ones, small ones, that get bounced or hit or thrown. Balls, which are--as you know--one of the favorite toys of babies.

    Yet interestingly no one, not even the profiting Bill Maher, ever accuses sports fans of being juvenile. Of being overgrown children. Get a whole bar riled up about Yankees versus Red Sox and no one is going to say, "My God, grow the hell up."

    That's because, as Neil Gaiman pointed out, if you have stories told via words alone, that's books and the realm of adults. Have pictures by themselves and that's art, and also for adults. But the moment you combine words and pictures, assholes believe that that makes it entertainment purely for children.

    I've said this before but it bears repeating: comic books aren't juvenilia. Comic books are modern myths. The definition of a myth is something that is defined within its own essence. If you ask someone, "Who is Gomez Addams?" they will reply, "He's a character created by cartoonist Charles Addams." IF you say, "Who is Superman?" people will likely respond, "He's a superhero, the last son of Krypton, with the secret identity of Clark Kent." In the same way that if you ask who Hercules is, you'll be told that he is a half-god born of Zeus having an affair with a mortal. You don't put it in context of its creation; you define it as itself. People who find Spider-Man fascinating are just as valid and adult in their interests as someone who studies Arthurian legend. The fact that it's happening in modern time and we know who the creators are doesn't make it any less mythic.

    Nor is the multi-billion dollar success of their movies proof of their crossover appeal, according to Maher. "They're all the same!" he declares, asserting that ALL comic book movies are about superheroes fighting over "glowy" things (like athletes fighting over a ball, remember.). The short answer is, Yeah, right, "Black Panther" is just like "Wonder Woman" (neither of which involved anything glowing.). The longer answer is, Yeah, right, super heroes fighting over glowing things is sure an accurate description of Men in Black. Or Road to Perdition.. Or Kingsmen. Or V for Vendetta. Or From Hell. Or 300, Sin City, American Splendor, Atomic Blonde, Ghost World,Dredd, Scott Pilgrim vs the World, and on and on.

    BUT, Maher further asserts, comics aren't literature. Well, let's figure that out. The dictionary definition of literature is: written works, especially those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit. So what's lasting merit? It seems reasonable to assume that it's obvious: something that lasts. That transcends generations. So since Action Comics #1, which was produced over eighty years ago, still has resonance, that would seem to satisfy the definition, as does Spider-Man who was created fifty-five years ago. But perhaps it's deeper than that. Perhaps to be literature, it must be critically acclaimed. Like Watchmen was when it won the Hugo. Like Sandman when it won the Bram Stoker award. Like Maus was when it won the Pulitzer.

    How many Pulitzers do you have on your shelf, Bill?

    I'm not pissed off with Maher because he went off on a rant about fans. God knows I've done that myself. I'm pissed off because he went off on a rant that was factually wrong, demonstrably inaccurate, and incredibly unfair. His words come from ignorance, and I wish to God he would do something, anything, to educate himself.

    PAD


    Thank you, Mr. David.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Buried Alien - THE FASTEST POST ALIVE!

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  2. #32
    Incredible Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Peter David has responded (via Facebook):

    Bill Maher has informed us, both on Twitter and again last night, that comic books are for kids and that fans of them are basically stunted individuals who are unable to accept adulthood.

    So let's talk about fans.

    Fans love to argue. They are particularly big on arguing who their heroes can defeat. And periodically they gather in large crowds, sometimes numbering over 50,000. They pay ridiculous entry fees to get in, and many of them dress up like their favorites. In the places where they gather, they cheer on their respective faves, chant together, eat and hang together. They buy a ton of merchandise, dropping hundreds of dollars at a time. And if they're lucky, they get autographs and go home happy. Hell, on rare occasions they even attend parades dedicated to their heroes.

    And that's just Mets fans.

    It's also Yankees fans, and Phillies fans, and Dodgers fans, and Jets and Giants fans, and Knicks fans, and so on throughout the country.

    Hell, Bill Maher even profits off it, since he bought a minority share of the Mets in 2012.

    And all these games...they involve balls. Isn't that interesting? Large ones, small ones, that get bounced or hit or thrown. Balls, which are--as you know--one of the favorite toys of babies.

    Yet interestingly no one, not even the profiting Bill Maher, ever accuses sports fans of being juvenile. Of being overgrown children. Get a whole bar riled up about Yankees versus Red Sox and no one is going to say, "My God, grow the hell up."

    That's because, as Neil Gaiman pointed out, if you have stories told via words alone, that's books and the realm of adults. Have pictures by themselves and that's art, and also for adults. But the moment you combine words and pictures, assholes believe that that makes it entertainment purely for children.

    I've said this before but it bears repeating: comic books aren't juvenilia. Comic books are modern myths. The definition of a myth is something that is defined within its own essence. If you ask someone, "Who is Gomez Addams?" they will reply, "He's a character created by cartoonist Charles Addams." IF you say, "Who is Superman?" people will likely respond, "He's a superhero, the last son of Krypton, with the secret identity of Clark Kent." In the same way that if you ask who Hercules is, you'll be told that he is a half-god born of Zeus having an affair with a mortal. You don't put it in context of its creation; you define it as itself. People who find Spider-Man fascinating are just as valid and adult in their interests as someone who studies Arthurian legend. The fact that it's happening in modern time and we know who the creators are doesn't make it any less mythic.

    Nor is the multi-billion dollar success of their movies proof of their crossover appeal, according to Maher. "They're all the same!" he declares, asserting that ALL comic book movies are about superheroes fighting over "glowy" things (like athletes fighting over a ball, remember.). The short answer is, Yeah, right, "Black Panther" is just like "Wonder Woman" (neither of which involved anything glowing.). The longer answer is, Yeah, right, super heroes fighting over glowing things is sure an accurate description of Men in Black. Or Road to Perdition.. Or Kingsmen. Or V for Vendetta. Or From Hell. Or 300, Sin City, American Splendor, Atomic Blonde, Ghost World,Dredd, Scott Pilgrim vs the World, and on and on.

    BUT, Maher further asserts, comics aren't literature. Well, let's figure that out. The dictionary definition of literature is: written works, especially those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit. So what's lasting merit? It seems reasonable to assume that it's obvious: something that lasts. That transcends generations. So since Action Comics #1, which was produced over eighty years ago, still has resonance, that would seem to satisfy the definition, as does Spider-Man who was created fifty-five years ago. But perhaps it's deeper than that. Perhaps to be literature, it must be critically acclaimed. Like Watchmen was when it won the Hugo. Like Sandman when it won the Bram Stoker award. Like Maus was when it won the Pulitzer.

    How many Pulitzers do you have on your shelf, Bill?

    I'm not pissed off with Maher because he went off on a rant about fans. God knows I've done that myself. I'm pissed off because he went off on a rant that was factually wrong, demonstrably inaccurate, and incredibly unfair. His words come from ignorance, and I wish to God he would do something, anything, to educate himself.

    PAD


    Thank you, Mr. David.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Oh, snap! Leave it to PAD to express brutally the truth of the situation. *Applauds*
    There is no such thing as an ethical Republican anymore. Period.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    This is the kind of thing that shouldn't bother a person, unless they think it's true, and applies to them.

    The way some people react to these kinds of innocuous criticisms is how we end up with the compensatory "maturity" of the Snyderverse.
    Indeed. Gotta love the reaction of some people. I really hope for you that you're not that easy to bait outside the net.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Sometimes he has legit points and some times he is just trolling for a rise out of people. You see it when he talks about religion, drug use and now comic book fandom. It is pointless to taking him seriously because he lumps all comics together and thus makes himself look dumb. If he attack primarily superhero comics and stay tightly in that arena he would be fine but even then why do people have to explain their vices like sports or comedy both are which are pointless if you put it under microscope. He is just trolling and it works because people are passionate about superheroes not because they take it seriously but it is their gateway to relaxing just like weed is his gateway. Don't feed the troll

  5. #35
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    His last rant about comics went viral so he thought he'd try it again. It's an easy way to get people riled up on social media.

    I mean, where's his rant about people who collect dolls, or beany babies, or baseball cards, or coins?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Most of the show was about Trump. This was one little segment. And he has had Michael Moore on probably more than any other show.

    Look, he's a comedian with a pretty good show about politics. He is not a spokesman for Democrats or liberals or anybody.
    This. Maher does a live show with an hour to fill, and not all of his rants will be on-target. I donít agree with his views on God, but that doesnít stop those jokes from being entertaining. Twenty bucks says this latest shot at Kevin Smith results in Smith coming on the show.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Peter David has responded (via Facebook):
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  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Something tells me that early in Bill Maher's career, someone said to him something like, "Do you really expect to get paid for telling jokes? Why don't you grow up and get a real job?" And he's still suffering from the resentment from that.

  9. #39
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    One should read his comments about not having children himself, they display a profound immaturity on his part.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  10. #40
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    Maher is just sometimes ignorant of what he talks about. He had a decently good point about #adulting and yeah Kevin Smith isn’t like the best representation of comic fans. But it’s like any art form. There are degrees

    There’s kids movies and adult movies. There’s kids music and adult music. There’s kids books and adult books. Same with comics. Then again it’s probably better to hold up From Hell or V For Vendetta than some of the things people are stating on twitter. But regardless it takes a very limited viewpoint to say what he said.

  11. #41
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    How is Kevin Smith a bad representation ? Dudes a talented writer, director, comedian, enjoys his work and is worth $25 million

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    How is Kevin Smith a bad representation ? Dudes a talented writer, director, comedian, enjoys his work and is worth $25 million
    Let's just say Kevin Smith while being talented acts a certain way that that perpetuates a stereotype about man children. And to be fair, he knows it. Love Kevin Smith too, but he's not the guy I'm going to point to if I ever feel the need to validate my comic fansom lol.

  13. #43

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    Bill Maher was in the movie House II.


  14. #44
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    isn't the same guy play on murder, she wrote? I never watch Bill Maher

  15. #45
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    A very apt way of looking at it.
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