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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Just an anecdote: Not only do I not know who Sophie Turner is, I don't know whether that's a character or an actor.

    Also, one of the reason you might not go all-in on marketing is when you discover that the marketing you are doing isn't generating word of mouth. If you promote something and people don't start getting excited about it, you legitimately don't go all-in on it, you experiment a little, try to find something that resonates that gives a reason and direction to go all-in on.

    Dark Phoenix, for good or ill, just had a severe general audience response of No Curiosity. I don't think that was the fault of marketing.
    Completely agree. I don't think any marketing miracle or marketing incompetence moves this needle much. When people don't care, they don't care. That kind of indifference is usually earned over a period of time.

  2. #272
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    I'd say that marketing and delays played a big part in this films demise really. Because as one article pointed out people behind the scenes had no clue what they were doing or what the Dark Phoenix film was supposed to do . Is this a reboot ? Is this about a character dying ? WTF ? Plus once a film is delayed ...twice it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. It makes you believe the film is gonna be shit honestly. (we saw this play out with Holmes & Watson where originally it was supposed to be spring 2018 , then summer and finally they tried selling it to netflix before a release in winter 2018)
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    I'd say that marketing and delays played a big part in this films demise really. Because as one article pointed out people behind the scenes had no clue what they were doing or what the Dark Phoenix film was supposed to do . Is this a reboot ? Is this about a character dying ? WTF ? Plus once a film is delayed ...twice it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. It makes you believe the film is gonna be shit honestly. (we saw this play out with Holmes & Watson where originally it was supposed to be spring 2018 , then summer and finally they tried selling it to netflix before a release in winter 2018)
    That is purely creative and production. That has nothing to do with marketing. It suggests a problem from the start that no amount of marketing magic could cover up. I would argue Marketing did more to get all the other weak Fox men flicks money. And for Dark Phoenix no one was going to be tricked they knew what they were getting and what mid range offerings they would receive for their money.

    You can only trick people for so long offering up more of the same over and over.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    I'd say that marketing and delays played a big part in this films demise really. Because as one article pointed out people behind the scenes had no clue what they were doing or what the Dark Phoenix film was supposed to do . Is this a reboot ? Is this about a character dying ? WTF ? Plus once a film is delayed ...twice it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. It makes you believe the film is gonna be shit honestly. (we saw this play out with Holmes & Watson where originally it was supposed to be spring 2018 , then summer and finally they tried selling it to netflix before a release in winter 2018)
    None of that is marketing though. You're describing shitty production.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    That is purely creative and production. That has nothing to do with marketing. It suggests a problem from the start that no amount of marketing magic could cover up. I would argue Marketing did more to get all the other weak Fox men flicks money. And for Dark Phoenix no one was going to be tricked they knew what they were getting and what mid range offerings they would receive for their money.

    You can only trick people for so long offering up more of the same over and over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    None of that is marketing though. You're describing shitty production.
    The 1st part if you examine is marketing. The marketing people had no clue what the film was and how to market it as we saw. The 2nd part was production with delays.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    The 1st part if you examine is marketing. The marketing people had no clue what the film was and how to market it as we saw. The 2nd part was production with delays.
    Marketing is generally done by a totally different department.

    A lot of time they have NOTHING to go on for the movie promotion.

    Take the movie Whose Your Caddy-it got marketed as a film of blacks vs whites over a golf course.

    The WRITER had to go to imdb.com and explain RACE had ZERO to do with the film. In fact everyone (very few mind you) who saw it-said the EXACT same thing.

    So that is probably what Dark Phoenix had happened.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Marketing is generally done by a totally different department.

    A lot of time they have NOTHING to go on for the movie promotion.

    Take the movie Whose Your Caddy-it got marketed as a film of blacks vs whites over a golf course.

    The WRITER had to go to imdb.com and explain RACE had ZERO to do with the film. In fact everyone (very few mind you) who saw it-said the EXACT same thing.

    So that is probably what Dark Phoenix had happened.

    An article from days ago explained that a lot of the marketing people at 21st Century Fox was out the door and gone. Sure its a different department. But with folks out the door and those left ; they again questioned what the film was supposed to be. Yeah its a different department for sure I agree. Those left who were there didn't really know what this film was about given what folks have reported thus far.

    Production wise Kinberg asked to fine tune an edit of graphics which took a year then factor in reshoots which extended it further. The delays for sure didn't help it. Even if the guy behind it claims he was fine tuning the special effects comically.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  8. #278
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    An article from days ago explained that a lot of the marketing people at 21st Century Fox was out the door and gone. Sure its a different department. But with folks out the door and those left ; they again questioned what the film was supposed to be. Yeah its a different department for sure I agree. Those left who were there didn't really know what this film was about given what folks have reported thus far.
    Dark Phoenix is the culmination of 20 years of X-Men films, and specifically this particular story was largely told once already. Even if you are completely unaware of any of the previous X-Men films, a simple google search will inform you what the movie was supposed to be. The idea that a group of professional marketers - even the B-team - didn't know what this film was about and couldn't be bothered to learn seems really, really far-fetched.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    Not to mention blockbusters can not survive on theater previews alone, hence why studios do more than that.
    I think the general public knows they can just hit up youtube for the trailers. I knew there was a general lack of interest for DP when the first trailer came out and it didn't have a lot of views compared to other blockbuster movies. The subsequent ones had small views for a movie of this size.

    Like some posters have been saying just a lack of interest in the X-Men brand. As well as other franchises judging by the box office.

  10. #280
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    Good marketers can take disinterest and reverse that if they have a product people will want once they explore it more.

    Dark Phoenix offered nothing for marketers to attract people with. It was a dour movie with little entertainment value that was a known re-do of an earlier movie people didn't love. (And which had a shit ton of production issues) I'd like to meet the marketer that could sell that lump of shit and make people pay gold for it.
    Last edited by Theleviathan; 06-24-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post

    We know tens of millions went to see Endgame. Presumably that audience would entertain going to another comic book movie if they were into the preview or the concept right? Yet not only did they not go to the movie, they didn't even care enough to consider going to it. I doubt a major marketing push was going to change their mind.
    No.

    Marvel remains at the pinnacle of the superhero movie genre. With a host of recognizable brands such as the Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man, and Iron Man, Marvel saturates the superhero market for a variety of different audiences. About 47 percent of respondents stated that they strictly preferred Marvel over its main competitor, DC, while only 11 percent answered in favor of DC. Marvel has achieved massive success in the film industry, partly due to its ability to include numerous superheroes into each movie, and connect their stories in a way that compels viewers to seek out other Marvel films. Around 54 percent of respondents from the 18 to 34 age range stated that they had seen one or more movies in the Avengers series.
    https://www.statista.com/topics/4741/superhero-movies/

    Not to mention Dark Phoenix is a not a newcomer friendly film nor was advertised as a jumping on point.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Dark Phoenix is the culmination of 20 years of X-Men films, and specifically this particular story was largely told once already. Even if you are completely unaware of any of the previous X-Men films, a simple google search will inform you what the movie was supposed to be. The idea that a group of professional marketers - even the B-team - didn't know what this film was about and couldn't be bothered to learn seems really, really far-fetched.

    Dark Phoenix was not a culmination of 20 years of X-Men films until Disney officially owned Fox in late March and advertise as such a weeks before it release.

    And like Comic-Reader Lad said in the Dark Phoenix thread: sure we comics fans know what "Dark Phoenix" means, but that name does not mean anything to the average moviegoer. So anyone just scanning the listings for current movies and comes across the DP name might just keep on scanning because there's no "X-Men" brand name to stop them in their tracks. Jean has never been refer to as “Phoenix” in the previous films save for single scene in X3, which is a movie that came out 13 years ago and she was only in the movie for around 10 minutes as a side character.

    And after seeing the movie twice, I can easily say that the marketing was VERY deceitful at the very least.
    Last edited by The Shape; 06-24-2019 at 07:27 PM.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    No.
    So 53% of an audience for a 3 billion dollar movie is nothing? And that's only if we take "prefer" to mean "exclusively", which it clearly doesn't.

    Your point is really, really silly.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    Good marketers can take disinterest and reverse that if they have a product people will want once they explore it more.

    Dark Phoenix offered nothing for marketers to attract people with. It was a dour movie with little entertainment value that was a known re-do of an earlier movie people didn't love. (And which had a shit ton of production issues) I'd like to meet the marketer that could sell that lump of shit and make people pay gold for it.
    Have you seen the movie yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    So 53% of an audience for a 3 billion dollar movie is nothing? And that's only if we take "prefer" to mean "exclusively", which it clearly doesn't.

    Your point is really, really silly.

    You are dodging my other point.
    Last edited by The Shape; 06-24-2019 at 07:39 PM.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    I think the general public knows they can just hit up youtube for the trailers. I knew there was a general lack of interest for DP when the first trailer came out and it didn't have a lot of views compared to other blockbuster movies. The subsequent ones had small views for a movie of this size.

    Like some posters have been saying just a lack of interest in the X-Men brand. As well as other franchises judging by the box office.
    This movie didn’t have X-Men brand, which was part of the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post

    A lot of people say that they didn't know that an X-Men movie was coming out, and while we comics fans know what "Dark Phoenix" means, I don't think DP means a damned thing to the average moviegoer. So anyone just scanning the listings for current movies and comes across the DP name might just keep on scanning because there's no "X-Men" brand name to stop them in their tracks.

    It's the only X-Men team movie without their own name in the title, and it's really kind of dumb. The posters spotlighting Sophie Turner, who has pretty much zero recognizability to the general public was also a stupid move.

    Unknown actor + unknown title = lots of people don't know what your movie is.
    Last edited by The Shape; 06-24-2019 at 07:36 PM.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    So 53% of an audience for a 3 billion dollar movie is nothing? And that's only if we take "prefer" to mean "exclusively", which it clearly doesn't.

    Your point is really, really silly.
    Also you are making the assumption that Dark Phoenix previews played in every screening of Endgame.

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