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  1. #661
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I beleive thats Moonstone and IIRC, the only time Rogue has fought her

  2. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Ive been waiting years for Rogue to rejoin the X-men proper and this aint it
    U right and u should say it.

  3. #663
    Moo-tant? Ultimate Rogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I beleive thats Moonstone and IIRC, the only time Rogue has fought her
    Yep,


    Oof, how I've resisted posting this Karla image all throughout the boards at times, that teenage line is a GOAT intro of a character (apologies for using the term GOAT, how desperately teen of me!)

    Next up,

    From X-Men Legacy #233 Rogue vs Proteus/Destiny/Psylocke/Nightcrawler/Husk



    and, I've forgotten where this Epilogue is from, but it's cute, so I'll post now before deleting from comp.


  4. #664
    Moo-tant? Ultimate Rogue's Avatar
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    Up next, a lesser spotted Rogue and Namor scene, I lol'd at this....



    Here we have the No Surrender ragtag Avengers, which reminds me, Sunspots hair, whats up with that! What was that all about in the first place.




    Wow! aww shucks! *goofy giggle*


    by Markovah, Mark Anthony Taduran
    Last edited by Ultimate Rogue; 11-23-2019 at 06:36 AM.

  5. #665
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Ive been waiting years for Rogue to rejoin the X-men proper and this aint it
    I completely agree. I recall being excited when Rogue and Gambit were used in the Astonishing run that brought back Xavier. These two should be in a main X-book/team. I like that they are being used and so far I like Excalibur but both characters should be leading characters, and especially Rogue.

    The main X-women seem to be Emma, Jean, and Storm but Rogue needs some love too (and I'm glad Betsy and Kwannon are getting some as well with Betsy leading a team and Kwannon getting a mini or whatever Fallen Angels turns out to be).

  6. #666
    Moo-tant? Ultimate Rogue's Avatar
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    For me it's felt like being caught between a rock and a hard place for past 2 years for sure.

    I've been wanting to support Rogues books, while not thoroughly enjoying them (MMX).
    I've accepted the marriage while being demotivated to enjoy it by JDWs negative comments of the 'marriage status', Gambit, his dislike and so probable control on the Kitty marriage veto, and lack of Rogue talk/enthusiasm.

    HoX/PoX I hated. The only things that saved it for me were a couple of scenes, Krakoa being an interesting world building location and that one line in PoX #6 about Destiny being foreboding.


    To a more positive consideration (or maybe more wishful thinking, naivety - see, I'm confused!) on Rogue;
    • The X-office may consider the marriage itself to have been the fanfare given to Rogues return to the X-books - but yeah, imo, JDW did his damnedest to mute the 'feel goods'
    • or MMX might have been the fanfare for Rogues return, but the pair were off and out there on the outskirts of the other stories. (Which kinda wasn't totally a bad thing!)
    • I dunno, I'm looking at other characters and thinking that Rogue has had it a lot better than others, [redacted rant about not feeling the roles and plots given to almost all the other female lead characters] kinda unappreciative of me .
    • An irony is at a time of coming together for all these characters, the flagship X-Men book is seemingly shunning the vast majority of these characters

    On Excalibur - I'm up for it. I'm up for Rogue being part of a story. A story that's new and different. I don't get the 'plot device' criticism thrown at characters sometimes, as frankly all characters in all of the history of literature are and have been 'plot devices'.

    I'm up for a story that doesn't dwell on 'pity her' (MMX), that doesn't 'hog her' away from other X-stories (UA), and isn't so serious in tone for so long (Legacy).

    Yikes, I've rambled and best get on with cooking the Sunday roast.

  7. #667
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    IMO her decline from the X-men started with Legacy and ended with X-men vol 4 where she was promptly removed from the X-books altogether to go to the Avengers. We sort of got crumbs with her cameoing in Gold and appearing in Astonishing but she felt like she was on loan and not a fullterm X-men. They kept her out of the X-events like Phoenix Resurrection, Extermination and Dissassembeld, but gave her MMX which was essentially a solo title. She has a starring role in Dawn of X but she was taken out of action in the first issue. She's felt really devalued as an X-man over the past decade or so

  8. #668
    Astonishing Member mikeb's Avatar
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    I too am frustrated about Rogue's current situation. Did Tini just want Remy and had to take Rogue? Unlike what happened just before the Messiah Complex, there was absolutely no build-up. Halfway through the first issue Rogue ends up a purple vegetable! (I hope people don't start calling Rogue Eggplant .) The covers of the Excaliber are very deceptive, she a vibrant Rogue ready to fight but inside she is just lying on her back in a vegetative state. IMO, Rogue is on ice because of the writer not wanting a popular female character to possibly steal the thunder of the all-new and improved Betsy Braddock. I found this panel from X-Men Legacy #271. In a lot of ways, it sums up Rogue's current situation.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #669
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    As a fan of Rogue, I am exercising patience.
    Betsy's new status as CB and all that is happening with Brian in Otherworld is the main focus of this opening arc, so I don't expect everyone to be given the spotlight. Although, Rogue being "light" in this issue and a catalyst of sorts within this arc, so far...one can hardly say she's not intrinsic to the story.
    Besides, -IAI- did say He and Rogue will protect the Lighthouse while Betsy and the others were in Otherworld saving Brian and...I'm hoping for some new power development and a costume change coming out of her beauty-sleep...so I can wait.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  10. #670
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    Yes to a new outfit but please enough with her powerset changing every other year. It never sticks anyway.

  11. #671
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    I too am frustrated about Rogue's current situation. Did Tini just want Remy and had to take Rogue? Unlike what happened just before the Messiah Complex, there was absolutely no build-up. Halfway through the first issue Rogue ends up a purple vegetable! (I hope people don't start calling Rogue Eggplant .) The covers of the Excaliber are very deceptive, she a vibrant Rogue ready to fight but inside she is just lying on her back in a vegetative state. IMO, Rogue is on ice because of the writer not wanting a popular female character to possibly steal the thunder of the all-new and improved Betsy Braddock. I found this panel from X-Men Legacy #271. In a lot of ways, it sums up Rogue's current situation.
    Why would you put that out there then? I wasnt thinking about Eggplant until you mentioned her

  12. #672
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Yes to a new outfit but please enough with her powerset changing every other year. It never sticks anyway.
    I agree but...That's just it.
    I want something that is decided on by the writers and something that sticks. The last we saw, she had some kind of "spatial/distance absorbing" thing that was never fully explained and properly explored so...
    I'm interested in seeing what Howard comes up with, for her. (That could be a question for the Excalibur creative team if they ever do an AIPT X-Men Monday)
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  13. #673
    Fantastic Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    Rogue's body/powers are being used to advance the Krakoa/Arrako/Apocalypse storyline. The main beats of Excalibur have been dictated to Tini from above and she gets to play about in a relatively limited sandpit (I'm 99.9999% sure that Shogo is part of Apocalypse's shenanigans because Jubes has no reason to be tagging along).

    A lot of individual character detail is getting sacrificed for the franchise-wide plans. In Marauders and New Mutants there's room within that sandpit to have a lot of fun, but it's not working for me in X-men and Excalibur. 'Apocalypse is fupping with random mutants to implement secret plan' works really well for him as a character (ILOVEHIM), not so much for random mutants caught up in it.

  14. #674
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    "Dictated" might be the wrong word there.
    From all the interviews from all the creatives...even the most recent one from Duggan...they clearly state how collaborative the process is, that HiX-Man basically throws out ideas/what if scenarios and they come up with story ideas and solutions.

    I'm not saying that you are wrong...I don't work at Marvel, nor do I have a source but...evidence points to your statement not being 100% correct.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 11-26-2019 at 04:46 AM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  15. #675
    Moo-tant? Ultimate Rogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    IMO her decline from the X-men started with Legacy and ended with X-men vol 4 where she was promptly removed from the X-books altogether to go to the Avengers. We sort of got crumbs with her cameoing in Gold and appearing in Astonishing but she felt like she was on loan and not a fullterm X-men. They kept her out of the X-events like Phoenix Resurrection, Extermination and Dissassembeld, but gave her MMX which was essentially a solo title. She has a starring role in Dawn of X but she was taken out of action in the first issue. She's felt really devalued as an X-man over the past decade or so
    You and me are like chalk and cheese, Tom and Jerry, Ying and Yang! We seem to have very different takes on Rogue and her history, but you hit the nail right on its head better than I ever have with the devalued summation. Kudos to you.

    Just cos I'm finicky, I'll just clear/elaborate on a couple of things;

    • She wasn't removed from the X-books to the Avengers in X-men Vol 4, She had been in the Avengers for at least 14 months at the time, she was removed to make her death in UA even more aggravating/emotive/final/callous.
    • I don't and didn't at all see MMX as a solo, if anything I read it more leaning towards Gambit, but, nah props to KT in that I think in that regard she got the balance right, I think because most of the preview pages were the Gambit pages, it lessened the impact of his contributions/appearances when reading it in full.


    Devalued is the absolute truth of how she's been handled very recently, with the new X-office. They haven't capitalized on any of the real estate built for her over the last 15 years, in universe and out here in marketing her. She's had long, successful runs on Legacy and UA that still need to be acknowledged in universe and out here, as to keep their value up. I get that that isn't so much of a duty of the current x-office, but it kinda sorta should be, just as a matter of practice, to maintain value of the product of what has come before, as how future editors and x-offices should do for the current editors and creators current productions.

    Just for a couple of egregious examples;

    • Whether we like it or not - Rogues stories of the recent past, more so than any other X-character, had built up strong relationships/ties with both Xavier and Magneto - She almost could have been posited as the Moira of HoX/PoX, as being the third way, the median between the two.
    • She led a team and was part of the round table of the freakin' Avengers. Whether that means she could be utilized as a 'spy', a 'source', or an exemplar of Xaviers dream has yet to be even mentioned in passing. She is undoubtedly a resource/intel/link for Krakoa/mutants/X-men towards the wider marvel world.


    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    I too am frustrated about Rogue's current situation. Did Tini just want Remy and had to take Rogue? Unlike what happened just before the Messiah Complex, there was absolutely no build-up. Halfway through the first issue Rogue ends up a purple vegetable! (I hope people don't start calling Rogue Eggplant. The covers of the Excaliber are very deceptive, she a vibrant Rogue ready to fight but inside she is just lying on her back in a vegetative state. IMO, Rogue is on ice because of the writer not wanting a popular female character to possibly steal the thunder of the all-new and improved Betsy Braddock. I found this panel from X-Men Legacy #271. In a lot of ways, it sums up Rogue's current situation.
    While this doesn't confirm or deny your suspicions of whether Tini wanted both characters, it says to me that their inclusion as a non-optional pair was more an editorial decision -

    So from the AiPT X-Men Monday interview with JDW

    AiPT!: Alright, now for some character questions. Rogue and Gambit… meerah (@roguesugah) asked if these newlyweds would be on any team books coming up.

    Jordan: So, again… you see how this would be considered a spoiler, right? If I had a book planned for later this year that had them as members that has not been announced or solicited yet, then me telling you the true fact that they are members of it is a spoiler. If I revealed that, I would just have to hope the writer of that book would not be mad at me for it, especially if it’s a team they’ve never been a part of before.
    ^taken from page 11 of this here thread.

    Yes, lets not call her an eggplant, as that totally takes me out of the story, because technically it would be 'Aubergine' in Excalibur, these eggplants you speak of are strange and alien *chuckle*

    And speaking ill of the 'possible' deceased is upsetting *chuckle* (see further below)

    You're on point about the Betsy angle, no doubt, but, yikes.... for all the building of good will they are trying here, they're tarnishing Betsy with Kwannons 'completely innocent' assassin spiel in interviews and FA and so the Cap Britain moniker may be being a bit of a poisoned chalice, so hopefully Rogue will be given the chance to save Betsy here, from the writers/editors emotional and one sided sentimental judgments of how things might be better written between K and B. A symbiotic explanation of K and B' psy-lock would've been more equally beneficial to both, as an explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    As a fan of Rogue, I am exercising patience.
    Betsy's new status as CB and all that is happening with Brian in Otherworld is the main focus of this opening arc, so I don't expect everyone to be given the spotlight. Although, Rogue being "light" in this issue and a catalyst of sorts within this arc, so far...one can hardly say she's not intrinsic to the story.
    Besides, -IAI- did say He and Rogue will protect the Lighthouse while Betsy and the others were in Otherworld saving Brian and...I'm hoping for some new power development and a costume change coming out of her beauty-sleep...so I can wait.
    Exactiously! (did I say it right)

    Quote Originally Posted by Foon4000 View Post
    Rogue's body/powers are being used to advance the Krakoa/Arrako/Apocalypse storyline. The main beats of Excalibur have been dictated to Tini from above and she gets to play about in a relatively limited sandpit (I'm 99.9999% sure that Shogo is part of Apocalypse's shenanigans because Jubes has no reason to be tagging along).

    A lot of individual character detail is getting sacrificed for the franchise-wide plans. In Marauders and New Mutants there's room within that sandpit to have a lot of fun, but it's not working for me in X-men and Excalibur. 'Apocalypse is fupping with random mutants to implement secret plan' works really well for him as a character (ILOVEHIM), not so much for random mutants caught up in it.
    There is also the angle that his fupping with Rogue specifically ain't that random. He and Gambit have beef, and so further down the line, Apocalypse (depending on outcome of story) could come to be a rogue to both of them, even more so, I mean. I don't think Rogue thinks much of him as is, and that has already been shown in story.


    Now, yeah, ummm, uhhhh, She could be dead. Excuse my bluntness!.

    spoilers:
    Her flower bed is referred to as a coffin in future solicits
    end of spoilers and so a resurrection protocol could be initiated, which could be used to annul the marriage or give us another Rogue, two Rogues, depending on if they save sleeping Rogue.

    They'd have a mental backup of a recently married Rogue, but hypothetically which era/state/version of Rogue would y'all want?

    It's not an option here, in this scenario, but I always thought having ultimate Rogue in the 616 would have led to better stories than what the O5 could provide. She'd hate with a fury Magneto, and have a chance to get close to him to take him on/manipulate him in the 616. She'd be detached, hurt and disillusioned with the X-Men. Juggernaut was her first partner in crime and Gambit was/is a source of pain and mourning to her, and so a no-go, closed chapter.

    Whew, that's a lot for now, I'm sure I've forgotten so many ideas racing through my noggin that I came here to say....
    Last edited by Ultimate Rogue; 11-26-2019 at 06:33 AM.

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