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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    LOL, I can't even with you. Oh someone posted a character bio on the internet, their opinion on what transpired must be true and completely factual!

    Here is the panel in question:

    Attachment 77911

    You do realize that "I"m not going to tell you what I did in exchange" could mean anything, right? Especially to Cap, who is from the 1940's. She could have meant she stole for him. Or roughed someone up for him. The fact that she is about to say 'criminal' but changed to 'crusader' at the last minute proves that she was trying to water down her history for Cap because she had a crush on him. To automatically assume she meant she prostituted herself says more about the writer of that bio and you, then the actual content.

    And secondly, that wasn't her first appearance. Her first appearance was fighting Cap.

    Thirdly, so what if she had? Doesn't change the fact that this all happened BEFORE she got her power back, with Spencer putting her right back in that position of having to do it all over again.

    Also, Spencer paying you in good stories is such a subjective opinion. In my opinion, I'd rather he pay us all by never touching the Cap franchise, or any of it's characters, ever again. Goodbye and good riddance to him.

    I posted the first paragraphs from the bios of 3 characters who consider themselves to be a group. one is a former call girl. the next is an exotic dancer. you keep going back to her first appearance. I've never read her first appearance. I only know when I first read a story involving her. that appearance made it completely believable (to me) that she might consider stripping to earn money to save Constrictor. that choice bothers you. and I find that hilarious. how did Spencer degrade her when she isn't bothered by the profession of stripping? to me, she made a logical choice to make some quick cash. and then Constrictor's death broke her heart. anything she did afterwards can be considered in character for a mourning individual who started out on the wrong side of the tracks.
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 01-31-2019 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #32
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post
    I think Rachel does imply “sex for her weapons” there. Gruenwald did write her sexually provocative... at least in those initial issues. Contextually I think that’s a fair interpretation.
    If it doesn't explicitly say it, I'm not going to automatically jump to that conclusion. And it still doesn't matter in context of the argument. That wasn't the first time Rachel spoke to Cap, this was...

    Rachel3.jpg

    I still fail to see how someone could get stripper from this introduction.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    If it doesn't explicitly say it, I'm not going to automatically jump to that conclusion. And it still doesn't matter in context of the argument. That wasn't the first time Rachel spoke to Cap, this was...

    Rachel3.jpg

    I still fail to see how someone could get stripper from this introduction.
    it totally matters. because your reading comprehension is poor. 3rd time - I never brought up her first appearance. i'm talking about my first exposure to the character.

  4. #34
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I posted the first paragraphs from the bios of 3 characters who consider themselves to be a group. one is a former call girl. the next is an exotic dancer. you keep going back to her first appearance. I've never read her first appearance. I only know when I first read a story involving her. that appearance made it completely believable (to me) that she might consider stripping to earn money to save Constrictor. that choice bothers you. and I find that hilarious. how did Spencer degrade her when she isn't bothered by the profession of stripping? to me, she made a logical choice to make some quick cash. and then Constrictor's death broke her heart. anything she did afterwards can be considered in character for a mourning individual who started out on the wrong side of the tracks.
    My point is that the narrative set Rachel up to be the one who struggled with it and her past. *She* was embarrassed by it. *She* felt it was something to overcome. Which is why she fought tooth and nail to overcome it. It was the entire point of the storyline surrounding her. The redemption and emancipation of Rachel Leighton. By Avengers Dissembled Rachel was a free agent. There was that whole plot of her and Steve trying to get back together only it turned out to be an LMD. By Brubaker's volume 6 Rachel was a respected field agent for SHIELD working with Dum-Dum Dugan. Only have Spencer put her right back to where she started all over again in a very regressive plot.

    If you don't have a problem with that, whatever, but you don't get to tell me that I don't get to have a problem with it because I do. And there is nothing you can say or do to change that.

    People really need to respect the fact that no one is required to like or agree with the direction of the writers that you like. Different strokes for different folks. If you can't handle the fact that people do not like Spencer just because you do, maybe you should see someone about your narcissism.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 01-31-2019 at 01:23 PM.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    My point is that the narrative set Rachel up to be the one who struggled with it and her past. *She* was embarrassed by it. *She* felt it was something to overcome.
    and then the love of her life/the man who she didn't have to feel insecure with died. and there was nothing that she could do to control it. so like a real living person, she backslid. it's not the end of her story.

    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    If you don't have a problem with that, whatever, but you don't get to tell me that I don't get to have a problem with it because I do. And there is nothing you can say or do to change that.
    actually, I get to tell you whatever. it's the double edged sword of the free speech you keep bringing up. your choices are to sass back or not engage.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    ...actually, I get to tell you whatever. it's the double edged sword of the free speech you keep bringing up. your choices are to sass back or not engage.
    And here is me, still not liking Spencer, and still determined to never subscribe to and buy another one of his books.

    Rachel Leighton under Ed Brubaker, an actually good Cap writer:

    Rachel4.jpg

    Rachel Leighton under Nick Spencer, a not-so-good one:

    Rachel5.jpg
    Last edited by capandkirby; 01-31-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    And here is me, still not liking Spencer, and still determined to never subscribe to and buy another one of his books.

    Rachel Leighton under Ed Brubaker, an actually good Cap writer:

    Rachel4.jpg

    Rachel Leighton under Nick Spencer, a not-so-good one:

    Rachel5.jpg
    so you're not even reading her most current appearances. probably still reading songbird backissues.
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 01-31-2019 at 02:15 PM.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    so you're not even reading her most current appearances.
    Have I read Domino? Yup. Every page. I've even discussed the run with Gail Simone on twitter, since she is one of the writers I follow BECAUSE OF DOMINO. Don't agree with everything Simone has done with Rachel, but she's still heads-and-tails better than Spencer as a writer. If Rachel has appeared somewhere between Cap vol. 6 (pictured above, aka the Brubaker panel), which happened AFTER Siege, btw, and Spencer's Sam Wilson run but before Domino then no, I missed it.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 01-31-2019 at 02:21 PM.

  9. #39
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    Captain America #357 Sep 1989
    "The Bloodstone Hunt"
    Batroc, Machete, and Zaran break into the American Museum of Natural History in New York City
    to steal the skeleton of Ulysses Bloodstone. Why does Baron Zemo covet the skeleton?
    Diamondback is snooping around trying to find out.



    Story by Mark Gruenwald. Art by Kieron Dwyer and Al Milgrom.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Witchfan's Avatar
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    How many years will it be until Rachel appears in a Marvel comic again.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Witchfan's Avatar
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    According to rumors I saw on Reddit, Rachel Leighton will be a character in Falcon and Winter Soldier. She will be played by Bonnie Wright.

  12. #42
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    Captain America #358 Sep 1989
    "Bones of Contention"
    Captain America descends deep into the catacombs of Manhattan to trace an emergency signal from Diamondback!

    After Cap rescues her they travel from Subterranea


    to South America in a desperate attempt to get one of the Bloodstone fragments before Baron Zemo does!

    Story by Mark Gruenwald. Art by Kieron Dwyer and Danny Bulanadi.
    Last edited by 616MarvelYear is LeapYear; 11-13-2019 at 09:50 PM.

  13. #43
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    Captain America #359 Oct 1989
    "Wheel of Death"
    Felled by curare-tipped blowdarts in the Incan temple, Captain America and Diamondback are
    strapped onto the Wheel of Death alongside their enemies, Baron Zemo, Batroc, Machete and Zaran.
    As the victims contemplate their imminent end, Cap searches for a means of escape.
    The chieftain, in accord with the ancient prophecy that the Incans will gain the means to avenge
    the wrongs done to them by the white man, orders his warriors to cast their spears at the helpless prisoners.
    In the nick of time, Cap’s metabolism manages to overcome the paralyzing effect of the curare.
    He wrenches one hand loose from its shackle, and catches a spear just inches
    from Zemo’s face and uses it to bat the other flying spears out of the air.
    He then breaks his other shackles and hurls a spear backward to knock the chief unconscious
    and his ceremonial mask bearing a Bloodstone fragment falls into the pit.
    Cap leaps out and engages the warriors single-handedly. After defeating them in a tour de force of action,
    he returns to the Wheel to discover the villains have managed to escape.
    He frees Diamond and locates the hidden exit used by Zemo and company.

    He carries Diamond to safety and they make it safely to their jet ahead of the natives…as a mysterious figure watches from the jungle.

    The Bloodstone detector sends Cap and company to the waters off Bermuda.

    Cap asks Diamond to search among the yachts in the area to find Zemo’s craft
    while he dives to look for the next fragment of the Bloodstone.
    Diamond swims to a nearby yacht and pretends to be just another
    rich vacationer who was separated from her party while scuba diving.

    She turns on the charm to persuade the ship owner to help her find her "friends."
    Meanwhile, the detector leads Cap to a sunken airliner and he arrives in time to see Batroc
    and his henchmen leaving with the Bloodstone fragment which had been aboard.
    Zaran and Machete hold Cap off while the Frenchman heads for the surface.
    Batroc encounters a shark and shoots it with his harpoon gun.
    Bad move, as the blood in the water attracts more sharks
    and Batroc swims back toward the undersea melee with a more dangerous foe in pursuit.

    Story by Mark Gruenwald and Kieron Dwyer. Art by Kieron Dwyer and Danny Bulanadi.

  14. #44
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    Captain America #360 Oct 1989
    "Blood in the Sea" First appearance of Crossbones
    Off the Bermuda shore, an undersea battle is in progress among Captain America, Batroc, Machete and Zaran;
    when suddenly a school of sharks decides to join the action!

    Meanwhile, Diamondback has snuck on board Baron Zemo's yacht

    and pilfers two of the bloodstone jewels!

    At the end of the day, Cap and Diamondback have two of the five bloodstone jewels and Baron Zemo has one.
    The hunt for the remaining two continues in Egypt.

    Story by Mark Gruenwald and Kieron Dwyer. Art by Kieron Dwyer and Danny Bulanadi.

  15. #45
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    Captain America #361 Nov 1989
    "Lair of the Living Mummy"
    As they explore a tomb in Egypt in search of the next fragment of the Bloodstone,
    Captain America and Diamondback are suddenly dropped into a pit full of poisonous snakes.
    Cap twists in midair so that he was able to land on his feet and catch Diamond before she hit the floor.
    He then tosses her to safety while his chainmail uniform protects him from the serpents’ bites and scorpions’ stings.
    Cap leaps and Diamond catches his hand to pull him out but the sudden weight dislocates her shoulder.

    Cap pops it back for her but the pain causes her to lose consciousness.
    Cap turns away to recover his shield but when he turns back, his compatriot is gone.

    Meanwhile, Baron Zemo and company have arrived at the Pyramids.
    The Nazi sends Batroc and his gang to the tomb to recover the fragment.
    As they take positions to ambush Captain America when he emerges, Batroc explains to his confused
    henchmen that he rescued Cap from the sharks last issue merely to gain an escape route for themselves.
    Down in the tomb, Cap discovers a piece of mummy wrapping outside a solid wall.
    A search uncovers a hidden doorway and Cap forces his way through to find
    an enormous living mummy hunched over the unconscious Diamondback.
    Cap attacks and discovers that this mummy is not only fast, it is superstrong.
    For all his agility Cap is easily overmatched and the mummy gets his throat in a death grip.
    Diamond’s sudden awakening distracts the mummy enough for Cap to jab his shield into its windpipe.

    Rushing to Diamond’s side he finds that the mummy’s ancient herbal remedies have
    healed Diamond’s injuries, even the sai wound received in Bermuda last issue.
    Cap and the mummy come to a truce, and Diamond, who knows Egyptian through her association with the Asp, translates.
    The mummy, N’Kantu, explains that the Bloodstone will restore him to life
    and he had sensed that Diamond had been in contact with more pieces of it.

    Cap persuades the mummy to let him have this fragment and he will return it later, with all the others….

    Outside, as Baron Zemo tends to the wounded Tristram Macawber, the psychic warns him that not
    one but two other parties are seeking the Bloodstone fragments, and then he lapses into unconsciousness.
    Meanwhile, John Jameson, piloting Cap’s Quinjet is becoming concerned about the long delay and looks at the two pieces
    of the Bloodstone, their hypnotic qualities reminding him of the Moonstone that had once turned him into the Man-Wolf.
    This spell is so deep that Jameson is unaware that the skull-and-crossbones-clad mystery villain has stowed away on the jet….

    N’Kantu shows Cap and Diamond a rear exit from the crypt and they emerge
    into the sunlight—only to be attacked by Zaran with his thrown sais.
    Col. Jameson swoops down to the rescue and the heroes mount the rope ladder—
    but then from his plane, Zemo opens fire on their all-too-exposed position….

    Story by Mark Gruenwald and Kieron Dwyer. Art by Kieron Dwyer and Danny Bulanadi.

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