Diamondback (Rachel Leighton) Appreciation (2019)

[Dermie]

By having her stripping for a living and returning to crime? All the more harsh of a reality for Rachel, in-particular, considering her background of a) being a rape victim b) being a victim of sexual harassment (by that Avengers' pilot dude, who was harassing Steve's girlfriend behind Steve's back)

John Jameson. And saying that he was "harassing" her is quite an overstatement. He made one misguided pass at her, which he immediately regretted and did not pursue again. I'm not saying John's behaviour wasn't wrong or inappropriate--but you're making it sound like a much bigger issue for both of them than it actually was.

That said, I agree with you about the making her a stripper thing. I was very disappointed in that as well, although not for the same reasons you listed. I happen to like Spencer's writing, in general, but I did feel that he made some mistakes with Diamondback.

The way he had Sam outing Dennis Dunphy was EXTREMELY insensitive. And several members of the lgbt community spoke up about that, as well, angry over Spencer's callousness.

Can you remind me what you're referring to here? I don't recall Sam "outing" Dennis at all, in a sensitive or insensitive way. Dennis seemed to already be out to everyone, the way he and his boyfriend were openly together in public?

the first time that I saw Diamondback, I thought that she was a stripper. and I was wondering why Steve Rogers was with a stripper. don't pretend that Spencer stripped Rachel of her dignity. her entire story is that she doesn't feel worthy of Captain America. and she's always walked the line between hero and villain. the BAD Girls were mercenaries. her love interest used to partner with Sabretooth and work for Helmut Zemo. she's not the Madonna. if you're a diamondback fan, why not like all of her?

That's all fair and valid. It was revealed that Rachel got her super-weapons in the first place by sleeping with the Trapster. In the early days she was very aggressively throwing herself at Cap sexually (such as hiding a key in her costume and expecting him to strip her to find it), and used flirtation to convince Paladin to help her, etc. Rachel is no stranger to exploiting her sexuality for her own advantage or profit, so in that regard her becoming a stripper isn't exactly out of character.

On the other hand, Diamondback was a SHIELD agent when last she was seen prior to Spencer's run (and SHIELD didn't collapse until after "Secret Empire") so what I had a problem with was the notion that Rachel needed to become a stripper at all. Between her regular employment as a SHIELD agent, and her other professional as a high-paid mercenary, why were expected to believe that Rachel had fallen on such hard times after Constrictor's illness that stripping was her only available option? That just didn't ring true.

I kept waiting for some reveal that Rachel's stripping gig was actually part of some undercover operation she was running for SHIELD, or a BAD Girls client, or something like that. Although no such reveal ever turned up in the story, its still my head canon that there was more to that situation than we were told at the time.

and it's a new century. no one should have to pretend to be straight. I saw no problem with Spencer's treatment of Dennis. he has treated him more fairly than any of the writers who wrote him as a homeless crazy person.

Agreed. Spencer did a wonderful job of rescuing Dennis from being a punchline and making him a legitimate supporting character again, and fleshing out his character again for the first time in years. I didn't see anything wrong with how he was outed, and I thought that was a nice reveal for him that fit smoothly with what we'd already seen of his character.

[Snoop Dogg]

Rachel dancing is not a degrading profession that lessens her sexual assault. It's a job that people have. The point that Viper used to manipulate her is that she was doing a normal job and not reaching her greater potential, and her arc was a meta-commentary about how she was one of those once-critical sidekicks like Jack and Free Spirit who fell off from prominence and then had to go live normal lives (which is one of Spencer's big things, how super people live their normal lives.) The arc ends with her finding her center again and learning how to move on from Frank, and then Domino shows that she succeeded. If you think that the dancing is degrading, okay, that's your take, but probably not uber-feminist Nick's. If you didn't like that she hit a low point, okay, but good characters have to hit low points so you can see them go high, and then they have to fall again if you want more stories.

As a reader of every main issue of Captain America and checker of Google, I specifically remember Dennis' sexuality not being revealed until his spotlight issue (which is when articles were written), and in it he just has his boyfriend, with it being a totally normal thing not relevant to the plot.

[capandkirby]

John Jameson. And saying that he was "harassing" her is quite an overstatement. He made one misguided pass at her, which he immediately regretted and did not pursue again. I'm not saying John's behaviour wasn't wrong or inappropriate--but you're making it sound like a much bigger issue for both of them than it actually was.

Kissing someone without their permission is a dick move. And yes, classifies as sexual harassment. Made all the more horrible by the fact that Rachel blamed herself for it. Wondering if she gave off a vibe that welcomed it. Which is exactly why what Spencer did to her was terrible. It felt like it was robbing Rachel of what little agency she had scraped together for herself over the years. Agency she had to fight tooth and nail for.

Rachel.JPG

That said, I agree with you about the making her a stripper thing. I was very disappointed in that as well, although not for the same reasons you listed. I happen to like Spencer's writing, in general, but I did feel that he made some mistakes with Diamondback.

I realize people like Spencer. That's fine. I'm not here to tell others how to think. I just wish that the same courtesy was extended to me in hating him. I didn't like the guy. I put him on the level of Loeb/Liefeld and Rieber/Austen as Cap writer's go. He added nothing of merit to the Cap franchise. Remender wrote a better Sam Wilson than Spencer did. And Spencer's name will never be up there with Kirby/Simon, Kirby/Lee, Englehart, Stern, Gruenwald, Waid, Brubaker and now, Coates.

Can you remind me what you're referring to here? I don't recall Sam "outing" Dennis at all, in a sensitive or insensitive way. Dennis seemed to already be out to everyone, the way he and his boyfriend were openly together in public?

Actually, he and his boyfriend were shown behind doors initially. It's wasn't until the battle with Battlestar was just about to begin that Sam was like 'why are you nervous fighting this guy, it's all good fun' and Dennis was like 'omg, do I have to spell this out for you, we have a history'.

[capandkirby]

Rachel dancing is not a degrading profession that lessens her sexual assault. It's a job that people have. The point that Viper used to manipulate her is that she was doing a normal job and not reaching her greater potential, and her arc was a meta-commentary about how she was one of those once-critical sidekicks like Jack and Free Spirit who fell off from prominence and then had to go live normal lives (which is one of Spencer's big things, how super people live their normal lives.) The arc ends with her finding her center again and learning how to move on from Frank, and then Domino shows that she succeeded. If you think that the dancing is degrading, okay, that's your take, but probably not uber-feminist Nick's. If you didn't like that she hit a low point, okay, but good characters have to hit low points so you can see them go high, and then they have to fall again if you want more stories.

Nick Spencer was NOT uber feminist, are you kidding me?! Let's do a checklist of how he wrote women, shall we?

Wanda = possessed, no agency.
Sharon = prisoner, no agency until the end, when she attempted to stab hydra!Steve.
Maria Hill = at fault for all bad things that happened
Bobbi Morse = the ONLY female on Clint's team to retrieve the cosmic cube shards and save Steve, was there spying for Hill
Rachel = despite a past where this character fought tooth and nail for agency, Nick took it all away from her again
Natasha = had her recruiting child soldiers and trying to recreate the Red Room, then, when she finally realized that maybe she should have done that, fridged her. Brutally.

Maybe stop with the Spencer bias, it will never, EVER work with me. Not ever. I will NEVER be convinced that Spencer was anything other than a total dick when it came to writing women. I am a woman, and I have every right to be offended by Spencer.

And I have no problem with stripping as a profession. My problem? You take a character who fought tooth and nail for agency over her life. Her was raised on the streets and orphaned, who fell into crime as a means to survive, who met Steve, fell in love, and decided to take her power back, but the entire time she fought for the agency, she had forces working against her, trying to kill her, trying to own her, and the first thing Spencer does? Puts her in a place where's she's back to doing everything out of desperation again. It's not that I have a problem with stripping, it's that Rachel was put into the position where it was her only alternative. She had her agency, Spencer took it from her, AGAIN.

What is with the blind following Spencer has on this forum? JFK. I don't like the guy. You can try to argue with me all you want. That fact is not going to change.

As a reader of every main issue of Captain America and checker of Google

And I've been reading the Cap title since the 80's. Your point? I mean, are you always this condescending? I'm sorry, was that an attempt to strut your dominance? Try it. Want to pin your Cap knowledge against mine? Lets go.

[Michael Watkins]

Wanda = possessed, no agency.

Vision = possessed, no agency. Thor = clueless and self-doubting

Sharon = prisoner, no agency until the end, when she attempted to stab hydra!Steve.

Rick Jones = prisoner and executed

Anita Hill = at fault for all bad things that happened

did you mean to write Maria Hill? because she ended this by taking out Blackout. the individual who orchestrated Secret Empire was a woman; Madame Hydra.

Bobbi Morse = the ONLY female on Clint's team to retrieve the cosmic cube shards and save Steve, was there spying for Hill

while the males bickered and ran around w/ their heads cut off. and Scott Lang, a male, was the actual traitor.

Rachel = despite a past where this character fought tooth and nail for agency, Nick took it all away from her again

Cancer-ridden and helpless Constrictor's development as a reformed villain ended off panel; while Rachel supported his butt.

Natasha = had her recruiting child soldiers and trying to recreate the Red Room, then, when she finally realized that maybe she should have done that, fridged her. Brutally.

Natasha stepped up to save Miles from becoming a murderer; while all the other heroes hid out underground. your agenda has no place here.

[Snoop Dogg]

No, I just wanted to clarify that I'm familiar with Dennis.

Spencer is actually a clear feminist in the things he does in the real world, the characters he's a fan of, the characters he creates, and how he writes them, which is generally ultra-competent. An entire issue of SamCap is about sexual harassment, he left Twitter over it, and throws shade on those issues a lot.

Sharon is critical to the end of Secret Empire by defeating Faustus, and the story would've been worse if there wasn't a more normal character around Hydra Steve to see the contradictions. Wanda is possessed by Cthon because she was one of the most powerful characters who had to be taken off the board, and is a critical and very powerful classic Avenger in a story where the most powerful have to be taken off the board and every classic Avenger had to be around to play a role. Like Thor, Vision, and Hulk. She wasn't that important to the story, but it did segue for her to be brought back to the Avengers in Uncanny. He has written Maria as central to his Secret Avengers run and she was key to the end of Secret Empire, and was very competent throughout all of it. He has written Bobbi as central to his Secret Avengers run and she was the most put together of that entire cube team. He made Natasha central to Secret Empire, but the point of her arc was that she was trying to protect the kids because Miles thought he was destined to kill, so she tried to do it herself and then died to make the ultimate point about how much she valued their innocence. She doesn't change her mind. Spencer also came up with the idea for her return. Aside from Sam, the main character, most developments that led to the characters winning was because of women, and that includes Carol, Quasar, and Viv.


Rachel getting a job like a normal person doesn't demean how far she's come, it's her ending up with a more normal lifestyle because she wasn't around in the Marvel Universe, being convinced by an ex-advertiser to return to her roots, and then snapping out of it and taking control of her life back. If the character who once reached a high point isn't allowed to hit any sort of low point ever again, then there's no stories to be told about the character. She rose from nothing to criminal to hero, then has to find her way from retirement to being a hero again, and the next time an actual story about her character is told, she'll have to face some other kind of tribulation in order to conquer it.

[capandkirby]

your agenda has no place here.

Don't have an agenda. I just don't like Spencer. I listed my reasons. They're unchanged. And I will post here when I want, as often as a want, on whatever topic I want to address, as long as it stays on the topic of comic books. You don't have the power to tell me I can't.

I do not like Nick Spencer. I think he's a crap writer. Deal with it.

[Michael Watkins]

The first appearance of Rachel had her working as an active member of the Serpent Society. She was with Asp and Black Mamba. If you thought she was a stripper that was a you thing, not a Gruenwald thing.

pretty sure that I said "the first time that I saw her." it's not like I set out to collect her first appearance. and your argument is that she was with Asp and Black Mamba? do I need to show you the two acting like strippers in Avengers the Initiative (or the cover w/ them draped across Taskmaster)? it's just part of their motif. this isn't a moral judgment.

LOL, appeal to emotion is a fallacy of logic. Nice try, though. I admire her strength and perseverance, what Spencer did was take her journey two steps back.

I don't care about changing your mind. i'm providing a counterargument to defend Spencer.

And did I say that *you* had a problem with how Spencer wrote Sam outing Dennis? No I did not. I specifically said that *I* had a problem with it, and based on what I've seen around social media, members of the lgbt community did as well. *You* can feel all you want about it, but you are not the only person in the world and other people are allowed to be offended even if you are not. BTW, the issue wasn't that Dennis is gay, we all knew that since the 80's, the issue was that Dennis' sexuality was Dennis' right to announce, not Sam's. Spencer approached the subject of coming out insensitively.

Sam didn't out him. it wasn't something that needed to be handled "sensitively." if you want to see an actual outing, look to Jean Grey and Iceman.

[Michael Watkins]

Don't have an agenda. I just don't like Spencer. I listed my reasons. They're unchanged. And I will post here when I want, as often as a want, on whatever topic I want to address, as long as it stays on the topic of comic books. You don't have the power to tell me I can't.

I do not like Nick Spencer. I think he's a crap writer. Deal with it.

you crack me up. every few months, we get another messageboard martyr who convinces themselves that people are trying to silence them. we're just talking comics. unclench already.

[capandkirby]

I don't care about changing your mind. i'm providing a counterargument to defend Spencer.

Are you on the guy's payroll or something? For the last time. I do not like him. I've pointed out my reasoning, it remains unchanged. I'm not going to rehash it all again to argue over it ad nauseum, it's pointless. You and Snoop defending him is not accomplishing anything other than frustration. People are allowed to like some writers and not others. People are allowed to post about it. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that some people took issue with Spencer's writing and that the world does not revolve around you and your positive opinion on Spencer.

Just because you say a subject doesn't need to be handled sensitively doesn't mean it shouldn't. Your opinion is not some grand high dictum sent down from some omnipotent power. I'm not going to think the subject of D-Man's outing, or the subject of Natasha saying, point blank, "Welcome to the Red Room, kids" in actual dialogue, or how Rachel can only be brought back if she's back to where she started in a panel is a non-issue just because you say it is. I feel differently than you, deal with it. I will not be bullied into backing down. I have no respect for your authority and based on how your trying to throw some imaginary weight around, as if you can change people's opinions by your sheer force of will, I am beginning to have little respect for you as a peer and fellow comic reader.

And by the way, it wasn't that she was with Asp and Black Mamba, is that their first appearance has the three ladies actually taking Cap head-on in a fight. My bad, I didn't realize that engaging superheroes in battle (and managing to escape with their limbs still attached, thus completely holding their own) is a common practice of strippers, I can see now why you were confused on the matter.

[Witchfan]

For those who are new to Diamondback and want to discover her, Rachel Leighton is Diamondback II. The first Diamondback was a male Luke Cage villain. Rachel's first appearance was in Captain America #310. Her main stint in Captain America was from Captain America #310-441. Her first appearance in another comic was Uncanny X-Men Annual #13. Her first appearance in an Avengers comic was Avengers #325. She started out bad, fell in love with Cap, and reformed in order to be with Cap. She lived in Avengers headquarters for a while, though she didn't become an Avenger. She eventually became a bad guy again so that Cap could get cured of the affliction that was killing him. After that her appearances become more sporadic. She was a part of Avengers: The Initiative. Domino is her best gig since then.

[MajorHoy]

Kissing someone without their permission is a dick move. And yes, classifies as sexual harassment. Made all the more horrible by the fact that Rachel blamed herself for it. Wondering if she gave off a vibe that welcomed it. Which is exactly why what Spencer did to her was terrible. It felt like it was robbing Rachel of what little agency she had scraped together for herself over the years. Agency she had to fight tooth and nail for.

Can we put things in perspective, people?

Perhaps I'm dating myself, but the incident being discussed was back in the late 1980s/early 1990s, wasn't it? Back then, it wouldn't quite have been considered "sexual harassment" as quickly as it is these days as much as it would be considered a social mistake on John's part, especially if it only happened once and was never repeated again. Jameson didn't appear to be trying to prove dominance / power over Rachel, did he? He misread the situation and caused an unfortunate situation that made her uncomfortable without that being his intention.

Definitely regrettable, but do we need to declare it "sexual harassment" for that particular incident?

[Michael Watkins]

Are you on the guy's payroll or something?

yes. he's paying me in good stories.

Fictional character biography[edit]

Tanya Sealy was born in Chicago. A former call girl, she was chosen under unknown circumstances by Roxxon Oil Company to partake in a covert operation to retrieve the mystical Serpent Crown. The executives at Roxxon had a device surgically implanted in Sealy's brain which granted her superhuman abilities. Working together with three other snake-themed villains,

Fictional character biography[edit]

Intelligent yet soft-spoken, Asp was born in Tanta, Egypt. It was there that she earned her reputation as an exotic dancer, being able to charm snakes with her sensual movements. Her ability to generate blasts of energy which cause paralysis intrigued the leader of the Serpent Society, Sidewinder, and he invited her to join the group.[1]

Fictional character biography[edit]

Rachel Leighton is a former sales clerk who became a mercenary. In Captain America vol. 1 #319, she reveals to Captain America that she has a brother and that when she was younger was introduced by him to the super-criminal known as the Trapster. In exchange for weaponry that the Trapster provides her with, Leighton suggests that in return she prostitutes herself to the criminal. One of the members of the original Serpent Society,[1]

[capandkirby]

yes. he's paying me in good stories.

Fictional character biography[edit]

Tanya Sealy was born in Chicago. A former call girl, she was chosen under unknown circumstances by Roxxon Oil Company to partake in a covert operation to retrieve the mystical Serpent Crown. The executives at Roxxon had a device surgically implanted in Sealy's brain which granted her superhuman abilities. Working together with three other snake-themed villains,

Fictional character biography[edit]

Intelligent yet soft-spoken, Asp was born in Tanta, Egypt. It was there that she earned her reputation as an exotic dancer, being able to charm snakes with her sensual movements. Her ability to generate blasts of energy which cause paralysis intrigued the leader of the Serpent Society, Sidewinder, and he invited her to join the group.[1]

Fictional character biography[edit]

Rachel Leighton is a former sales clerk who became a mercenary. In Captain America vol. 1 #319, she reveals to Captain America that she has a brother and that when she was younger was introduced by him to the super-criminal known as the Trapster. In exchange for weaponry that the Trapster provides her with, Leighton suggests that in return she prostitutes herself to the criminal. One of the members of the original Serpent Society,[1]

LOL, I can't even with you. Oh someone posted a character bio on the internet, their opinion on what transpired must be true and completely factual!

Here is the panel in question:

Rachel2.jpg

You do realize that "I"m not going to tell you what I did in exchange" could mean anything, right? Especially to Cap, who is from the 1940's. She could have meant she stole for him. Or roughed someone up for him. The fact that she is about to say 'criminal' but changed to 'crusader' at the last minute proves that she was trying to water down her history for Cap because she had a crush on him. To automatically assume she meant she prostituted herself says more about the writer of that bio and you, then the actual content.

And secondly, that wasn't her first appearance. Her first appearance (where she actually spoke and was given dialogue) was fighting Cap.

Thirdly, so what if she had? Doesn't change the fact that this all happened BEFORE she got her power back, with Spencer putting her right back in that position of having to do it all over again.

Also, Spencer paying you in good stories is such a subjective opinion. In my opinion, I'd rather he pay us all by never touching the Cap franchise, or any of it's characters, ever again. Goodbye and good riddance to him.

[tliscord]

I think Rachel does imply “sex for her weapons” there. Gruenwald did write her sexually provocative... at least in those initial issues. Contextually I think that’s a fair interpretation.