Diana's origin - why can't DC make up its mind?

[LadyP]

Here's the thing. One person's utopia can be viewed as another person's dystopia. The concept of a utopia is a flawed one because humans by their nature are flawed and what is perfect for one person isn't perfect for another. I think Themyscira works when it is shown as a good place but with flaws not unlike a lot of places and the story is about Themyscira re-connecting with the outside and exchanging views and ideas.

Well put. While Themyscira comes across as a utopia on the surface further exploration trends to show that it is not without its flaws. No isolated society could ever be deemed as being perfect.

I've always found it to be more compelling when Diana is faced with the conflict of reconciling her upbringing on Themyscira, her notion of Man's World and the reality of it. Diana’s ultimate goal, I feel, should be about bridging the gap and reconnecting Themyscira with the outside world after she having lived and experienced the world. After having seen the benefit that Themyscira’s achievements could provide to “Man’s World” along with showing the compassion and wisdom the Amazon’s are supposed to have. That they aren’t just some battle hardened warriors as some writers like to over-represent them.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think they've been very consistent with it. It's just that it's not what a lot of people want.

The movie had Zeus play a part in her birth. I think it was deliberately left vague, so it's possible she was indeed a clay statue brought to life by Zeus with the Godslayer purpose in mind and not the result of an affair with Hippolyta. Jenkins didn't dwell on it too much besides being a last minute plot twist, but who knows if it will be dwelt on either way in WW84. From what little we know of the sequel, I don't think "clay birth vs. daughter of Zeus" will matter at all.

Rucka chose not to dwell on it too much, but he did hint at Jason right in his first issue, so he never contradicted the daughter of Zeus thing. Robinson was hired to build a plot around it. Wilson has made her preferences known, but will probably take the Rucka approach and just not dwell on it. I think people got their hopes up with the premise of the Lies and are let down that it didn't wipe away the demigod origin, but I wouldn't confuse that with inconsistency. It's pretty straightforward.

I'm kind of beyond caring about her conception, there are other parts of her mythos we need to focus on. As long as Zeus isn't constantly shoved in my face, I can deal with the demigod origin. Rucka already got rid of him being the source of her powers anyway, he is now nothing more than a sperm donor.

The thing that sets Wonder Woman apart from the likes of Superman and Batman is that they existed to preserve a flawed system and fought against any efforts to change it while Wonder Womans whole point was to change things for the better and improve society. To make the world a utopia like Paradise Island.

I'd have to respectfully disagree here. YMMV on Batman (and with Batman, it all depends on the version and the intentions of whatever story he's in), but Superman's core concept is the working man standing up for the little guy against corruption, both with his powers and with his investigative journalism. He fights the system, he just does it in a different way than Wonder Woman. If a writer has him as a preserver of the system, they're definitely doing it wrong, the same way a writer who writes Diana as a blood thirsty barbarian does it wrong by her.

I believe that's a bit unfair, at least to Superman. Superman (if we take his original origin) grew up in the dustbowl, and in the shadow of the great depression. He clearly believes in the American Dream, and wants to expand it to reach as many as possible. Society might be flawed, but it can be improved and made better.

^Or what he said.

[kjn]

I think I remembered an old interview with Azzarello about his Wonder Woman run, and finally tracked it down.

Q: How did this gig come about?

A: I was out to dinner with Dan DiDio. This was actually prior to the New 52 becoming the New 52. We were actually in talks about me doing a different character. We’ve gone out to dinner and I told him what my feelings were about taking this character in a certain direction. He was happy with it, so we were finalizing that. I asked, “Are you doing this [heading in new directions] with some of the other ones?” He said Batman is staying Batman, and he told me what editorial wanted to do for Wonder Woman. I was appalled. I came up with something different right there at dinner. I thought the direction was going to be a mistake for that character, right at her core. And I knew nothing about her!

Q: Is most of what you know about her based on the Lynda Carter TV version?

A: I didn’t even watch that.

(snip)

Q: You know there are comic-book purists who hate the idea of Wonder Woman having a father.

A: Some people thought it was an insult to the ideal of feminism. Giving her a father was an assault to that. Though I have never met a feminist who didn’t have a father. ... With Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, any really famous character, you can break their origins down into a sentence or two, and Wonder Woman didn’t have that. And the sentence or two is not for people who read comics; it’s for people outside of comics, in general popular culture. But now she is Zeus's daughter, and now it works. In a general pop-culture sense, it works. That’s something that everybody can get their head around.

[Joao]

I think I remembered an old interview with Azzarello about his Wonder Woman run, and finally tracked it down.

Oh god I've never read this. It's kind of insulting. Shame on DC for letting him "correct" Wonder Woman if he didn't even know the character that well. Now I wonder what that original direction for the new 52 would be.

[kjn]

Yeah. In a way, the Azzarello run is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a character: a good story that manages to crap all over the meaning of the character.

A bad story can easily just be pushed aside. A good story can't. In many ways, I prefer the take that Azzarello did on Zeus being supplanted to the one that Rucka did (except the fight with Medusa; that one was awesome), since it tied much more into actual Greek myth and felt like it had real stakes. But at the same time it ripped a giant hole right through the center of Wonder Woman's construction.

And for someone who pride himself for going to the mythological roots, he sure missed the basis for Diana in the Pandora myth.

[Agent Z]

Yeah. In a way, the Azzarello run is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a character: a good story that manages to crap all over the meaning of the character.

A bad story can easily just be pushed aside. A good story can't. In many ways, I prefer the take that Azzarello did on Zeus being supplanted to the one that Rucka did (except the fight with Medusa; that one was awesome), since it tied much more into actual Greek myth and felt like it had real stakes. But at the same time it ripped a giant hole right through the center of Wonder Woman's construction.

And for someone who pride himself for going to the mythological roots, he sure missed the basis for Diana in the Pandora myth.

Rucka actually had Zeus be supplanted. Azzarello just put Zeus back on the throne.

[Jokerz79]

I'm a clay fan all the way love the uniqueness it gives Diana instead of another child of Zeus. If she must have a father than do like the Justice League animated series where Zeus (Animated Series used Hades) helped formed her from the clay with Hippolyta.

[stargazer01]

The confusion about Diana's origin and how her powers work exactly kind of keep her mythos back in popular culture. But her new movie was a big hit so I guess that will be her main lore now love it or hate it..

[Cerulean Scarab]

I think Diana’s “origin” is a lot more stable than people give it credit for.

What is Batman’s origin? He witnesses his parents being killed and trains to become a detective vigilante

Superman? Last son of a doomed planet grows up on Earth and gets powers that let him fight for truth and justice.

Wonder Woman? Daughter of the Queen of the Amazons leaves Paradise to defend man’s
world, to be a symbol of a more enlightened, accepting culture

Yeah her exact parentage differs from time to time. But to me that’s no different than the Kent’s dying early or late, or who the first villain Bruce fought after becoming Batman was.

Wonder Woman could’ve been dropped off by Yoshi and it would hardly make a difference. As for the Zeus stuff, I’m indifferent to it. It adds some storytelling potential while having an easy explanation for her powers, and can be quietly forgotten unless a plot specifically calls for Greek god family drama.

[Amazon Swordsman]

The confusion about Diana's origin and how her powers work exactly kind of keep her mythos back in popular culture. But her new movie was a big hit so I guess that will be her main lore now love it or hate it..

It’s here to stay “love it or hate it”, huh? Okay, I hate it. Now try to sell me a comic with that knowing that.

Of all continuity things to solidify, that just seems so bizarre. You’d think things like her powerset, base of operations (outside of themyscira), or supporting cast would be far more important to solidify.

[Jim Kelly]

I used to doubt the sanity of many DC writers, because they wrote about the occult so convincingly that I thought they really believed in ghosts and goblins and considered the stories they created as accurate to the real world.

I've since convinced myself that, other than Alan Moore, DC writers probably aren't that stupid and they simply put themselves in a head-space where they can believe in the existence of all this absurd junk for the space of a story, but then when they go away from their keyboard, they know it's all nonsense for escapist entertainment.

I can understand that many writers don't go along with the Amazon mythology and they might think it's all silly, but as writers--if they can pretend that hell exists--they should be able to put aside their prejudices and let Wonder Woman be as she was intended.

The confusion about Diana's origin and how her powers work exactly kind of keep her mythos back in popular culture. But her new movie was a big hit so I guess that will be her main lore now love it or hate it..

Didn't the movie promote the same confusion? It might not have been intentional, but audiences had a hard time knowing what was true and what was false.

[SiegePerilous02]

Didn't the movie promote the same confusion? It might not have been intentional, but audiences had a hard time knowing what was true and what was false.

I don't think the GA was confused by much of anything. What was there to confuse them?

[LordUltimus]

I don't think the GA was confused by much of anything. What was there to confuse them?

Ares' wording could imply the whole thing was a lie, or just the reason she was created.

In any case, I doubt the sequels will bring it up, and now the GA is aware that the clay origin exists.

[AmiMizuno]

Not Just Diana but her other supporting cast. Look at Donna or Cassie's origins. Donna's are far more worst. To be honest I don't even know if DC cares about them to write a good story featuring all three. They can't even get Steve to be nothing other than being military. We saw Steve outside of the military. I would like to see a bit of what he doesn't outside of work.

[Jim Kelly]

Ares' wording could imply the whole thing was a lie, or just the reason she was created.

In any case, I doubt the sequels will bring it up, and now the GA is aware that the clay origin exists.

It's like a Rorschach blot, you see in it what you want to see. I thought that it was unclear but could mean that she was made from clay. If you like that idea, that's the explanation that will stick in your brain. I could imagine many little girls were attracted to the idea and went with it and ignored any contrary information that might suggest otherwise.