X-Men: Dark Phoenix film

[juan678]

[loke13]

I'm shocked but I actually really liked it?

Are critics so used to epic MCU films that character driven and focused movie like this feels mundane to them. The only part that felt the movie dragging was the action scenes, particularly the train sequence at the end. Every time, I thought the D'Bari were all dealt with, more kept popping up and they all did the same damn thing. Also, Jean was sidelined for most of it so it bought all the momentum to a screeching halt.

Other than that, I enjoyed it. I knew Mystique was going to die but I still really felt her death more than any other X-Men film death with the exception of Jean in X2. I also felt genuinely sorry and scared for Jean much of the film.
What I'm most scared about though? Disney execs blaming this film's failure on the lack of Wolverine...

Casual MCU bashing aside it's like you're living in a universe where Logan didn't get rave reviews?

It being character driven isn't the problem. It being a bad movie is.

They adapted the inherently epic DPS (TWICE) and then produced yet another watered down/rushed film version of it. And considering this was being marketed as the last HURRAH for the X-men it just comes off as more of a whimper than a bang especially coming off of the heels of Infinity War and Endgame which managed to be both epic and character driven while paying homage to it's previous movies AND tying up the character arcs of two of it's characters.

[Konja7]

Hmm, demonstrating that the characters have grown into a team of professionals who trust each other by sending them in a dangerous mission is the very definition of “show don’t tell”.

That's why I think "show don't tell" is overestimated.

I mean sometimes the story really needs to tell and explain the events.

[SpiderClops]

That's why I think "show don't tell" is overestimated.

I mean sometimes the story really needs to tell and explain the events.

[Divine Spark]

Story has potential but it’s let down by the screenplay.

[SpiderClops]

Are critics so used to epic MCU films that character driven and focused movie like this feels mundane to them.

Oh, for the love of...

First of all, people need to realize that calling a movie character driven is neither a praise nor a critique. It's just description. Are any of the Inidana Jones movies really character driven? No, they are mostly plot driven. Now, are they bad movies?

Second of all, MCU is way more character driven than XCU could ever hope to be. People have this tendency to think that if a movie is serious/dark/gritty or something akin to that, it must be character driven. Even Logan wasn't that much of character driven. I'd put Homecoming way above it, and Wonder Woman too. Hell, GotG Vol.2 had tons of character driven moments.

What I'm most scared about though? Disney execs blaming this film's failure on the lack of Wolverine...

You mean Fox. Disney is the one that made the most successful franchise of all time based on B to D list superheroes.

[WallStreeter]

The problem is a lot of male comic book fans are stuck in the 89s and are complete unaware of the current politics. Reread the Dark Phoenix saga and the interview.

Originally saintly teacher’s pet Jean Grey becomes the powerful Phoenix. A man basically sexually assaults her and she loses control, becomes murderous a has to die.

So basically because she was tarnished by a man and no longer pure she had to die. Not to mention Bryne saying he hated the team having two powerful women.

All they have to do is continue with this film for Phoenix in the MCU. No need to keep retelling that same 1980 story. For anyone wanting an adaptation close to the original, there is TAS.

Kinburg certainly did a better job this time around, much better than x3.

[WallStreeter]

I'm shocked but I actually really liked it?

Are critics so used to epic MCU films that character driven and focused movie like this feels mundane to them. The only part that felt the movie dragging was the action scenes, particularly the train sequence at the end. Every time, I thought the D'Bari were all dealt with, more kept popping up and they all did the same damn thing. Also, Jean was sidelined for most of it so it bought all the momentum to a screeching halt.

Other than that, I enjoyed it. I knew Mystique was going to die but I still really felt her death more than any other X-Men film death with the exception of Jean in X2. I also felt genuinely sorry and scared for Jean much of the film.
What I'm most scared about though? Disney execs blaming this film's failure on the lack of Wolverine...

Disney executive have made all their hit films and tv shows without Wolverine and they now earn Fox. No XMen movie has ever failed at the box office and many in the film are stars in their own right who can appeal to general audiences.

[Jokerz79]

The problem is a lot of male comic book fans are stuck in the 89s and are complete unaware of the current politics. Reread the Dark Phoenix saga and the interview.

Originally saintly teacher’s pet Jean Grey becomes the powerful Phoenix. A man basically sexually assaults her and she loses control, becomes murderous a has to die.

So basically because she was tarnished by a man and no longer pure she had to die. Not to mention Bryne saying he hated the team having two powerful women.

All they have to do is continue with this film for Phoenix in the MCU. No need to keep retelling that same 1980 story. For anyone wanting an adaptation close to the original, there is TAS.

Kinburg certainly did a better job this time around, much better than x3.

I'm a Cyclops fan and I think X3 is a better movie than this now is this a better "Phoenix Story" yeah but both aren't good Phoenix Stories anyways and X3 was a better film as a whole IMO.

[Konja7]

The problem is a lot of male comic book fans are stuck in the 89s and are complete unaware of the current politics. Reread the Dark Phoenix saga and the interview.

Originally saintly teacher’s pet Jean Grey becomes the powerful Phoenix. A man basically sexually assaults her and she loses control, becomes murderous a has to die.

So basically because she was tarnished by a man and no longer pure she had to die. Not to mention Bryne saying he hated the team having two powerful women.

All they have to do is continue with this film for Phoenix in the MCU. No need to keep retelling that same 1980 story. For anyone wanting an adaptation close to the original, there is TAS.

Kinburg certainly did a better job this time around, much better than x3.

Honestly, I am not sure this was the intention in Phoenix saga. I've read they originally don't plan to kill Jean.

Disney will reboot the X-Men franchise. Disney would probably do this, even if Dark Phoenix have a good reception. Taking into account the bad reception of Dark Phoenix, they only have more reasons.

[Jokerz79]

Honestly, I am not sure this was the intention in Phoenix saga. I've read they originally don't plan to kill Jean.

Disney will reboot the X-Men franchise. Disney would probably do this, even if Dark Phoenix have a good reception. Taking into account the bad reception of Dark Phoenix, they only have more reasons.

Her death was editorial mandate because of her killing the planet but Claremont did like the new ending. I have a deluxe hardcover reprinting with the original ending her losing her powers but surviving as bonus material.

[WallStreeter]

Honestly, I am not sure this was the intention in Phoenix saga. I've read they originally don't plan to kill Jean.

Disney will reboot the X-Men franchise. Disney would probably do this, even if Dark Phoenix have a good reception. Taking into account the bad reception of Dark Phoenix, they only have more reasons.

There won’t be a complete reboot. Their keeping Deapool. Film executives make their decisions on box office totals. It would not surprise me if they kept Sophie Turner as Phoenix/Jean Grey.

The MCU is not going to do a Dark Phoenix movie. Jean losing control has been dealt with twice and Fox is now a part of Disney. They have many other stories to tell, including those with Jean/Phoenix.

[ExodusCloak]

The problem is a lot of male comic book fans are stuck in the 89s and are complete unaware of the current politics. Reread the Dark Phoenix saga and the interview.

Originally saintly teacher’s pet Jean Grey becomes the powerful Phoenix. A man basically sexually assaults her and she loses control, becomes murderous a has to die.

So basically because she was tarnished by a man and no longer pure she had to die. Not to mention Bryne saying he hated the team having two powerful women.

All they have to do is continue with this film for Phoenix in the MCU. No need to keep retelling that same 1980 story. For anyone wanting an adaptation close to the original, there is TAS.

Kinburg certainly did a better job this time around, much better than x3.

What? Byrne did not say that nor was she killed because she was sexually assaulted by another man.

Both Claremont and Byrne hated the original Jean. Claremont felt she dressed like a republican frump and Byrne thought she was boring so they both agreed on improvements. However both saw the character differently.

Byrne saw her has possessed but described her as a drug addict.

And Claremont had her search for the cosmic orgasm. If the high evolutionary is godlike in the sense of intellect but devoid of emotion. Jean was the opposite full of emotion regardless of logic. You can make an argument that that is a sexist trope but that is what Claremont stated in X-Men companion.

The original ending had her live.

Editorial felt that she had to die because she committed unwittingly a genocide. And it was some saw awful that could not be forgiven.

But Claremont saw the Shiar world as so far evolved above the human race that Lilandra having the ability to forgive Jean would be like someone forgiving Hitler. Again his words.

Jean died because editorial felt genocide was too far. And at the time there weren't many who committed it. Unlike now

[Jokerz79]

There won’t be a complete reboot. Their keeping Deapool. Film executives make their decisions on box office totals. It would not surprise me if they kept Sophie Turner as Phoenix/Jean Grey.

The MCU is not going to do a Dark Phoenix movie. Jean losing control has been dealt with twice and Fox is now a part of Disney. They have many other stories to tell, including those with Jean/Phoenix.

This film is tracking to make less than 40 million in North America on Opening weekend lowest in franchise history and losing to Secret Lives of Pets 2 and we know no X-Properties will show up in the MCU until at least Phase 5 a few years away. Given this films failure and the time between this and the next X film it will be a complete reboot. Deadpool is continuing on but there are no reports of him being in the MCU he'll probably be his own thing using D list characters and making meta comments on it.

[Grimsmack]

I read a couple of reviews that mention "Magneto gets a free pass" for killing probably thousands of people throughout the series, whereas the possibility that Jean might go psychotic warrants a big debate about her existence.

Magneto gets Genosha and Jean gets shot.