X-Men: Dark Phoenix film

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

I think it looks pretty good, and I'm super psyched about the trailer tonight. I just hope that it gets released at a decent time. Staying up until 1 to see it drop on James Cordon's YouTube channel was rough. Though Fallon's show is in an earlier time slot, so there's hope.

[Ororo101]

I think it looks pretty good, and I'm super psyched about the trailer tonight. I just hope that it gets released at a decent time. Staying up until 1 to see it drop on James Cordon's YouTube channel was rough. Though Fallon's show is in an earlier time slot, so there's hope.

Yeah I think it’ll drop in the 11:30-12 est. range.

[PhoenixStudies]

“The Phoenix” as the X-men movies portray it, was in fact in X3. Just because it was the telepathically suppressed dark persona of Jean Grey’s limitless power and not a cosmic fire entity that posesses a woman to save her life and the lives of her friends while creating a duality within her to accept the limits and beauty of mortality or embrace the Phoenix’s potential for insaitiable and unlimited power doesn’t mean that it wasn’t in the film. It just means that they chose to present it entirely different from its comic origins. The fact that “The Phoenix” being in the movie is even debatable is entirely the problem.

But originally in the comic story the Phoenix was simply Jean's own power/potential and slightly divergent persona. It was later changed to a force and even later retconned into a being/entity of its own.

Originally the solar flare merely tore through the psychic barriers Xavier had placed in Jean's mind, allowing her to achieve her full potential as a psi (too quickly). She briefly became a being of pure psionic energy before reforming herself as Phoenix. This is fully explained in Uncanny X-Men #125 (1979). It is also explained that Moira and Xavier always knew Jean had this kind of potential. It was also stated in Uncanny X-Men #102 (1976) that Jean had resurrected herself.

Now it is true that in the final issue of the Dark Phoenix storyline, Uncanny X-Men 137 (1980) it was revealed that Jean had become one with a "force of primal passion in the universe" on the shuttle, and this merger created Phoenix. This was the 2nd explanation for Phoenix and was introduced in an attempt to partially absolve Jean from destroying D'Bari.

Just a few issues earlier when Dark Phoenix and Xavier fought, they used the 1st explanation from Uncanny 125 and state that Xavier's blocks had resulted in the creation of Phoenix and later Dark Phoenix.

From Uncanny X-Men 101-136, the Phoenix was Jean's own power and slightly divergent persona. Even in the character design/notes by Cockrum and Claremont, it is stated that Phoenix is Jean with slight spit personality disorder. In Uncanny X-Men # 137 it was changed to a primal force of passion of the universe that Jean had become one with. There was no "Phoenix Force" in the original story. The Shiar had never encountered the Phoenix before they met Jean in the original story. They likened Phoenix/Jean to the "dark angel chaos bringer" from their legends but at that time it wasn't literally so (future stories would retcon in a past between the Shiar and the Phoenix Force). However, at the end the Shiar did refer to her as the "Jean Grey/Phoenix entity" with the merger of Jean and the force of passion being the entity, not the force itself.

The idea of the Phoenix Force as its own being/entity and not merely a force was introduced in 1986, 10 years after the introduction of Phoenix in Uncanny 101 (1976). Even the idea of the force came about 4 years after Jean was transformed into Phoenix.

The retcon is so prevalent that many fans don't even know that when the first X-Men film trilogy portrayed the Phoenix as Jean's own power and aspect of her mind, they actually were pulling from the source material and the original explanation for Phoenix.

[Soulsword323]

I think the poster looks fine, not particularly exciting, but nothing horrible looking. I don't like the coat. I would have much preferred if they had just shown her covered in Phoenix fire like that other cover, for the Phoenix side of things. That red coat is something that wasn't really needed, and just invokes a reference to X3 that Kinberg should be avoiding.

[Shankarma1]

Drop the coat and go with the naked friery body

[MarvelMaster616]

Drop the coat and go with the naked friery body

If the behind-the-scenes CGI footage that Kinberg showed a while back is any indication, we might get just that.

[Uncanny X-Man]

The retcon is so prevalent that many fans don't even know that when the first X-Men film trilogy portrayed the Phoenix as Jean's own power and aspect of her mind, they actually were pulling from the source material and the original explanation for Phoenix.

Quoted for truth. The Phoenix as the equivalent of a cosmic psychotic breakdown/personality split is pulled straight from Claremont/Cockrum's original idea for Jean. I've come to enjoy the Phoenix Force retcon and the story possibilities that it opened up since, but there's something undeniably fascinating in the Phoenix just being Jean's own personality split and corruption. The Umbrella Academy on Netflix recently did it brilliantly with X3's own Kitty Pryde

[Mutant 77]

Quoted for truth. The Phoenix as the equivalent of a cosmic psychotic breakdown/personality split is pulled straight from Claremont/Cockrum's original idea for Jean. I've come to enjoy the Phoenix Force retcon and the story possibilities that it opened up since, but there's something undeniably fascinating in the Phoenix just being Jean's own personality split and corruption. The Umbrella Academy on Netflix recently did it brilliantly with X3's own Kitty Pryde

Technically speaking, "Phoenix" was and still is Jean Grey's split personality. The "space" events of "Dark Phoenix" will enhance that personality and its powers because Jean will merge with an obscure cosmic entity. That's my attempt to join the two different theories.

[Ororo101]

But originally in the comic story the Phoenix was simply Jean's own power/potential and slightly divergent persona. It was later changed to a force and even later retconned into a being/entity of its own.

Originally the solar flare merely tore through the psychic barriers Xavier had placed in Jean's mind, allowing her to achieve her full potential as a psi (too quickly). She briefly became a being of pure psionic energy before reforming herself as Phoenix. This is fully explained in Uncanny X-Men #125 (1979). It is also explained that Moira and Xavier always knew Jean had this kind of potential. It was also stated in Uncanny X-Men #102 (1976) that Jean had resurrected herself.

Now it is true that in the final issue of the Dark Phoenix storyline, Uncanny X-Men 137 (1980) it was revealed that Jean had become one with a "force of primal passion in the universe" on the shuttle, and this merger created Phoenix. This was the 2nd explanation for Phoenix and was introduced in an attempt to partially absolve Jean from destroying D'Bari.

Just a few issues earlier when Dark Phoenix and Xavier fought, they used the 1st explanation from Uncanny 125 and state that Xavier's blocks had resulted in the creation of Phoenix and later Dark Phoenix.

From Uncanny X-Men 101-136, the Phoenix was Jean's own power and slightly divergent persona. Even in the character design/notes by Cockrum and Claremont, it is stated that Phoenix is Jean with slight spit personality disorder. In Uncanny X-Men # 137 it was changed to a primal force of passion of the universe that Jean had become one with. There was no "Phoenix Force" in the original story. The Shiar had never encountered the Phoenix before they met Jean in the original story. They likened Phoenix/Jean to the "dark angel chaos bringer" from their legends but at that time it wasn't literally so (future stories would retcon in a past between the Shiar and the Phoenix Force). However, at the end the Shiar did refer to her as the "Jean Grey/Phoenix entity" with the merger of Jean and the force of passion being the entity, not the force itself.

The idea of the Phoenix Force as its own being/entity and not merely a force was introduced in 1986, 10 years after the introduction of Phoenix in Uncanny 101 (1976). Even the idea of the force came about 4 years after Jean was transformed into Phoenix.

The retcon is so prevalent that many fans don't even know that when the first X-Men film trilogy portrayed the Phoenix as Jean's own power and aspect of her mind, they actually were pulling from the source material and the original explanation for Phoenix.

I fully acknowledge along with I believe most fans that the Phoenix storyline is convuluted AF due to retcons on top of retcons over the years. I also will give credence to your take on Jean/The Phoenix as even though I am a fan, the intricacies of Jean’s history are not my general wheelhouse. Is it not the general consensus though and current canon that the Phoenix Force is still in fact seperable from Jean Grey herself? Thereby making it a seperate entity, although with an innate spiritual almost intimate bond with the soul of Jean Grey? Was the Phoenix a part of her when she was born? How do you then explain all of the multiple times that the Force itself has inhabited other people and even bonded with some i.e Rachel Grey, Quentin Quire? Jean Grey is the main host of the Phoenix, it’s prime connection to the mortal coil but I didn’t think it was still open to debate that it is per current canon, a seperate entity. If not then who/what did she “say goodbye” to at the end of Phoenix: Ressurection? Generally asking all of this by the way, I’m always open to learning more information about a character.

[Ororo101]

Quoted for truth. The Phoenix as the equivalent of a cosmic psychotic breakdown/personality split is pulled straight from Claremont/Cockrum's original idea for Jean. I've come to enjoy the Phoenix Force retcon and the story possibilities that it opened up since, but there's something undeniably fascinating in the Phoenix just being Jean's own personality split and corruption. The Umbrella Academy on Netflix recently did it brilliantly with X3's own Kitty Pryde

By the way, I’ve always liked the character notes that Claremont used for his inspiration for the Phoenix being grounded in real life schizophrenia/multiple or split personality disorder. I’ve used that analogy countless times in my explanation of why I like and appreciate Marvel characters vs other comic brands because they give their fantastical and extraordinary characters difficulties and struggles that ordinary people/ readers can relate to and use for strength in their own lives. I just was under the impression that it was heavily influenced in the creation and inspiration for the character, not actually used as an explanation for the origin of The Phoenix.

[Thirteen]

I’ve long suggested “The Last Stand” works better if you swap in Wanda for Jean for most of the story beats.

It boggles the mind that, I’m a time where female directors are such a “get” for female character driven movies, that there ISN’T a woman prominent behind the scenes guiding “Dark PhoeniX” the story of a female protagonist struggling with ultimate power tempting/corrupting her. The folly of the Phoenix plot in X3 was that it made it seem that Uber powerful Jean was evil because....she was powerful? Times UP on that concept folks.
And for my money... Famke wore it better.

4DBAB2D3-CA09-4DA0-A86F-0C9B78C07536.jpg

[AHRNIHAL]

When the trailer is dropping?

[Divine Spark]

When the trailer is dropping?

Tonight.

10 chars.

[Ororo101]

I’ve long suggested “The Last Stand” works better if you swap in Wanda for Jean for most of the story beats.

It boggles the mind that, I’m a time where female directors are such a “get” for female character driven movies, that there ISN’T a woman prominent behind the scenes guiding “Dark PhoeniX” the story of a female protagonist struggling with ultimate power tempting/corrupting her. The folly of the Phoenix plot in X3 was that it made it seem that Uber powerful Jean was evil because....she was powerful? Times UP on that concept folks.
And for my money... Famke wore it better.

4DBAB2D3-CA09-4DA0-A86F-0C9B78C07536.jpg

FULLY agree with all of this!

[Divine Spark]

I’ve long suggested “The Last Stand” works better if you swap in Wanda for Jean for most of the story beats.

It boggles the mind that, I’m a time where female directors are such a “get” for female character driven movies, that there ISN’T a woman prominent behind the scenes guiding “Dark PhoeniX” the story of a female protagonist struggling with ultimate power tempting/corrupting her. The folly of the Phoenix plot in X3 was that it made it seem that Uber powerful Jean was evil because....she was powerful? Times UP on that concept folks.
And for my money... Famke wore it better.

4DBAB2D3-CA09-4DA0-A86F-0C9B78C07536.jpg

Can’t really say Famke wear it better since their outfits are far from identical. Her’s was a red gown instead of a red jacket.