X-Men: Dark Phoenix film

[HandofPrometheus]

If Disney had the opportunity to stop this movie from going to theatres they should've done it. It has the lowest opening for the X-men and is going to continue dropping. They should can White Mutants while they're at it.

[butterflykyss]

Just saw it. Very forgettable. The movie adaptations of the Phoenix fail to portray it as a true cosmic force. The D-Bari came out of nowhere and nothing Jean did was comparable to what Magneto did in DOFP and Apocalypse.

well she flew into outer space and killed herself that should account for something right???

[Divine Spark]

Just saw it. Very forgettable. The movie adaptations of the Phoenix fail to portray it as a true cosmic force. The D-Bari came out of nowhere and nothing Jean did was comparable to what Magneto did in DOFP and Apocalypse.

There was a longer and much better cut of this movie.

-Opening was the same up until they got back to the mansion after the space mission. There was about maybe a minute more of Scott and Jean in their living area. Nothing too major but it helped flesh-out out their relationship more.
-There was a bit more of Raven and Hank in the sub basement, with Hank clarifying that raven wants to run away with him, together, to start a new life together. I heard there was another scene also diving a bit more into their relationship but I didn’t see that.
-It also showed them running upstairs and through the school to the door to the grounds. The shockwave blows the door open and after their look of initial shock, they are sent flying back and hit a wall on the opposite end and fall on top of each other. So overall maybe an extra 3-5 minutes there.
-a small bit of Xavier leaving the banquet and getting loaded into an SUV and leaving with a convoy escort! Basically a presidential motorcade that speeds off and pulls into the institute.
-A tad bit more of Jean and her father of her being overjoyed. Everything after she switches is the same.
-A bit more of her fighting Nightcrawler. Nothing spectacular.
-I didn’t see any transformation scenes, not for Hank, not for Raven and not for Chastain. Perhaps that’s why I didn’t interpret them as shape shifters. The effects shots were likely not done. For instance, I’d see blue Raven and then the next shot would have JLaw.
- when The D’Bari land, what I saw was a shot of shooting stars over the lake with one of those ‘shooting stars’ slowing down and landing rather than one splitting into 3.
-The newscaster message about the mutant interments camps and the Jean Grey incident were played over Jean scrubbing blood in the rain. We didn’t hear Jean speak in my cut. Thankfully they changed that in the final because I loved Sophie’s acting.
-The scene of Chastain meeting the other D’Bari on the roof was different, for instance, no D’Bari and no mention of their homeworlds destruction. Notice how all of that is all off camera, you don’t see Chastain actually say any of those lines. It’s ADR, and in the one place you do see her say that, it’s out of context which was in the roof scene. It originally had her asking about humans, their chemical makeup, mutants, and someone mentions the X-Men and that the force has taken host within the member Jean Grey. This was much longer than the final cut.
-There was an additional scene of her meeting another that had long infiltrated the government and handing her an FBI badge and describing Earth’s governments. Probably another 5 minutes shaved off the total runtime with this cut.
-Jeans approach to Genosha had shown the inhabitants fearing her and beginning to run away until Selene and co stepped forward, who was noticeably absent here.
-Jeans conversation with Erik was slightly longer and ended on a different note, with her saying “or what” and her eyes flowing at him as she stood up.
-Erik’s line from the trailer was gone, which he was supposed to say right before she flew away. It was longer than we hear in the teaser trailer. “I’ve seen evil, I know what it looks like when it’s staring back at me and I’m looking at it now”.
-Slightly longer scene of Chastain and her right hand arriving at Jeans house, starting with an overhead shot of her opening her umbrella which uses a different shot in the movie. There was also more of her walking up to the house.
-Jean and Chastain at the bar was longer. “You think you don’t belong here, you don’t”. That was cut.
-Some of Storm in the sub basement was cut. She had a line “Where Scott goes, I go. If he needs me, I’m there, end of discussion”
-Shot of the landed X-Jet in Central Park as we see Magneto and co walking up to Selene is cut.
-Basically all of Storm and Selene's fight choreography is cut, in addition to a few more moments of Selene using her powers to make Nightcrawler band around and get closer to her.
-Completely different structure for Erik getting thrown out of the window. The helmet breaking and him being thrown happened at the same time. I saw an overhead shot of it fracturing in every direction from his head and him being ejected out at the same time. It username an alternate take to show off Fassbenders reaction and fear from what I’ve been told.
-Hologram scene featuring the D’Bari home world destruction was redone. This is entirely different in good ways and bad ways. Notice most of their speech between each other doesn’t feature their mouth on screen.
-Jean was also to have slight fire in her hair in this scene, part of which was completed from the first original version of the film and wasn’t altered for the new 3rd act yet, which saw it removed.

*EVERYTHING after Jean stopping herself now from killing Xavier is from reshoots with the sole exception of the school rename and Summer Fontana’s astral plane scene.
-Most of Chastain’s lines after Jean stops attacking Xavier were new, Xavier was just supposed to say “she will kill us all” and she hisses “yessssss”
-Can’t remember if I saw it in the final cut or not but I’m almost certain that it’s cut. Vuk was supposed to have a full face reveal after she gets up on the roof after Scott blasted her, while they were all being carried away. Then we were to see her face heal over itself and her stare at the stars taking in her newfound heightened senses. Then she was to look down at the mutants being loaded up into armored vans.
-Scott had a speech about what Raven would have done that united both sides as they were captive. All that was cut, it was repetitive to Xavier’s speech but it should have gone to Scott.
-Train fight was mostly the same, hard to tell it was pre-viz when I saw it intercut with fresh, bare, footage. I did notice that they took a shot out of a ship flying above the train and a lot more alien soldiers raining down on the train.
-Chastain was supposed to do a superhero landing on the team, with the speed pushing her skin she grew out of place and it healing back. THEN she was to rush at Beast.
-PHOENIX FORMING AROUND JEAN AS IT INTERTWINED WITH THE TRAIN AS ITS CARS FLOATED IN THE SKY. Was entirely Pre-viz so probably cut for budget and impact of the space Phoenix.
-ALL of Jean’s fight choreography was cut. She was to have a massive fight with onslaughts of the aliens that were coming out of the rubble ending with her disintegrating then all after being stabbed with the pole.
-When Vuk rushes at Jean, Jean was supposed to dodge left and they had a brief fight before Vuk grabs her neck.
-Their exchange in space is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
Vuk “You could have been a God”
Jean“I’d rather die a mortal”
-There was an additional shot back to the bar Jean and Chastain met in with the tv news now with Jean Grey as being remembered as a hero, having died while saving Earth from unknown forces.


Overall, I liked some of the tweaks pertaining to two scenes in particular for personal reasons, but I felt that the pacing was much stronger in the longer cut. All of the film’s non script related issues could have been avoided. With all of the above 22 minutes were cut, I was told.

I wouldn't be shocked if Fox decided to cut the movie down to under two hours in the hopes of getting more screenings in.

[regg215]

I dont think its fair to say people trash movies that are not mcu. why cant it just be these criticisms come from a place of genuinely not enjoying the fox-movies. I have been very vocal about my distaste for everything fox has done with xmen franchise; however, I can also acknowledge the aspects of the avenger films I didnt like. this being said even with all of the liberties Disney has taken with the avengers the company as a whole has done much better in investing in a wide variety of characters by developing them and the company has embraced the comic book characteristics as well. Fox didnt do this and made an effort to keep the movies "grounded" while also only focusing on four to five characters. fox had 20 years to strengthen their franchise but instead they went with gimmicks by focusing their stories around the actor who was the hottest at a given period. I for one think the harsh criticism is deserved and it's time for something fresh and different

It certainly can be that people just genuinely disliked the films, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I would just say on average non mcu films get much harsher criticisms than they deserve.

I can absolutely agree that Fox dropped the ball with several characters- Storm, Cyclops and Rogue are probably the biggest three in my opinion that got robbed of their stories and characterizations. Where I think Fox gets a bit unfairly judged is that those misses seem to mean absolute condemnation for the movies in spite of whatever else happens in the movie. MCU seems to get a pass on that- for example as a huge Thor Fan it angers me to no end that the epic conclusion of his part of the infinity saga was him being a running joke for the entire last movie, sure he may get other movies but in the last chapter of the main saga they have been telling he was reduced to being used for Fat jokes. Despite that making me angry it didn't mean that the entire movie was terrible, just that part of it. X-men movies never seem to get that break, kinda seems like for some people (not everybody) if their favorite character doesn't get treated well, the entire movie is a garbage fire that needs to be retconned. Fox botched some characters, no question about that, but they get condemned for that whereas the MCU can turn Hulk into a dabbing, jokester with no meaningful fights in a movie and it doesn't affect how people see the whole movie. Normally people are able to separate with the MCU and say I didn't like that individual part but overall it was good, where as Fox never seemed to get that break.

Also seemed like fox got criticism for stuff marvel gets a pass on. Fox focusing on Wolverine, Magneto, Raven and Xavier and sidelining other characters was always brought up, but the MCU did the exact same thing continually having the focus on Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Loki. Yet the MCU didn't get the same criticism. Iron man was the focus of almost every movie and got cameos in everything the same way wolverine did, but the MCU got a pass for it and fox didn't, Cap and Tony fighting each other or disagreeing and then ultimately working together happened in almost every avengers movie, the same way Charles and Erik did in the x-men franchise yet MCU mostly gets a pass and fox doesn't. Characters like Widow, Hawkeye, Hank Pym, Hulk, Vision and Wanda all got sidelined or changed to fit the story or reduced to a cool moment or two, the same way Storm, Scott, Rogue and Gambit did, yet MCU kinda gets a pass and fox didn't. There is no question the MCU does things a lot better on average but they seem to get the benefit of the doubt and people just dislike a moment or two but don't trash the whole film, where fox would make a dumb mistake or two and the whole movie got trashed.

Edit- I would also say that as the call for marvel to get the rights back got louder and louder it didn't really seem to matter to a large portion of fans what fox did with the x-men, no matter what the movie was like there seemed to be a large segment of the fandom that was going to hate it because the fox movie could never live up to the theoretically perfect movie the MCU would have made instead. Actors who were cast for roles were really given no chance to succeed because fans went into the movies wanting to hate it and even if they had been amazing in the role they were never going to be given credit because the "MCU would have handled it better". Kinda seemed to me like how affleck got treated in the DCEU, from the moment he was cast he had no chance to be successful because a lot of people wanted to hate him in the role. if he took a different approach than other actors he was "ruining" the character but if he acted the same way as other actors who have played batman did he was just an unorignal copycat.He was far from perfect in the role but
he got a ton of criticism for stuff that others got a pass for , like how people hate his batman because he killed but they love Keaton's batman who killed as much if not more than affleck's batman did.

[PsychoEFrost]

It certainly can be that people just genuinely disliked the films, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I would just say on average non mcu films get much harsher criticisms than they deserve.

I can absolutely agree that Fox dropped the ball with several characters- Storm, Cyclops and Rogue are probably the biggest three in my opinion that got robbed of their stories and characterizations. Where I think Fox gets a bit unfairly judged is that those misses seem to mean absolute condemnation for the movies in spite of whatever else happens in the movie. MCU seems to get a pass on that- for example as a huge Thor Fan it angers me to no end that the epic conclusion of his part of the infinity saga was him being a running joke for the entire last movie, sure he may get other movies but in the last chapter of the main saga they have been telling he was reduced to being used for Fat jokes. Despite that making me angry it didn't mean that the entire movie was terrible, just that part of it. X-men movies never seem to get that break, kinda seems like for some people (not everybody) if their favorite character doesn't get treated well, the entire movie is a garbage fire that needs to be retconned. Fox botched some characters, no question about that, but they get condemned for that whereas the MCU can turn Hulk into a dabbing, jokester with no meaningful fights in a movie and it doesn't affect how people see the whole movie. Normally people are able to separate with the MCU and say I didn't like that individual part but overall it was good, where as Fox never seemed to get that break.

Also seemed like fox got criticism for stuff marvel gets a pass on. Fox focusing on Wolverine, Magneto, Raven and Xavier and sidelining other characters was always brought up, but the MCU did the exact same thing continually having the focus on Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Loki. Yet the MCU didn't get the same criticism. Iron man was the focus of almost every movie and got cameos in everything the same way wolverine did, but the MCU got a pass for it and fox didn't, Cap and Tony fighting each other or disagreeing and then ultimately working together happened in almost every avengers movie, the same way Charles and Erik did in the x-men franchise yet MCU mostly gets a pass and fox doesn't. Characters like Widow, Hawkeye, Hank Pym, Hulk, Vision and Wanda all got sidelined or changed to fit the story or reduced to a cool moment or two, the same way Storm, Scott, Rogue and Gambit did, yet MCU kinda gets a pass and fox didn't. There is no question the MCU does things a lot better on average but they seem to get the benefit of the doubt and people just dislike a moment or two but don't trash the whole film, where fox would make a dumb mistake or two and the whole movie got trashed.

What you're missing is that the X-Men is a team series. Iron Man was heavily featured in the MCU because he had three movies all to himself, and was the whole reason Spider-Man got his movie. Cap got two movies to himself. Thor got 3. The characters with a ton of solo time show up the most.

But the X-Men are not a solo series, regardless of what Fox seems to think. You can't just have Wolverine have three solo movies in which no other character shows up, and then go from there. But even when the MCU did team up movies, character development and screen time were split. Avengers 1 was Tony, Cap, Hulk, Thor. Avengers 2 was Clint, Tony, Wanda, and Vision. Avengers 3 was Wanda, Vision, Cap, Panther, Tony, and Bucky.

People complain about the Erik and Charles arc because they are the main characters of First Class, DoFP, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix but go through the same arc with each other every time except for DP apparently. In a team series, the only characters that ever mattered were Mystique, Charles, Erik, and Jean in the latest one only.

No character in the MCU movies was reduced to "one cool moment" the same way just about every character in the post First Class movies were. Quicksilver literally exists to do his one gimmick in each movie.

These are not even comparisons.

[Maestroneto]

An example such as?

Captain Marvel was a disaster of a movie which made the same mistakes as the X-Men movies (ill-defined protagonist, generic villain, nonsense plot, gimmick time period) and any criticism lobbed at it was dismissed as raging misogyny. It was better than Dark Phoenix, but only barely.

[PsychoEFrost]

Captain Marvel was a disaster of a movie which made the same mistakes as the X-Men movies (ill-defined protagonist, generic villain, nonsense plot, gimmick time period) and any criticism lobbed at it was dismissed as raging misogyny. It was better than Dark Phoenix, but only barely.

You mean the movie that had over 500 negative reviews on Rotten Tomatoes two weeks before it came out because Brie Larson hurt the feelings of a bunch of screaming manchildren? And for a "disaster" of a movie, a 78 rating despite every MRA site slamming it before they saw it is pretty darn good. The well for rational discourse on that movie was poisoned long before it premiered.

[Maestroneto]

You mean the movie that had over 500 negative reviews on Rotten Tomatoes two weeks before it came out because Brie Larson hurt the feelings of a bunch of screaming manchildren? And for a "disaster" of a movie, a 78 rating despite every MRA site slamming it before they saw it is pretty darn good. The well for rational discourse on that movie was poisoned long before it premiered.

As someone who adores Brie Larson and her willingness to speak truth to power, thank you for proving my point.

[Konja7]

It certainly can be that people just genuinely disliked the films, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I would just say on average non mcu films get much harsher criticisms than they deserve.

I can absolutely agree that Fox dropped the ball with several characters- Storm, Cyclops and Rogue are probably the biggest three in my opinion that got robbed of their stories and characterizations. Where I think Fox gets a bit unfairly judged is that those misses seem to mean absolute condemnation for the movies in spite of whatever else happens in the movie. MCU seems to get a pass on that- for example as a huge Thor Fan it angers me to no end that the epic conclusion of his part of the infinity saga was him being a running joke for the entire last movie, sure he may get other movies but in the last chapter of the main saga they have been telling he was reduced to being used for Fat jokes. Despite that making me angry it didn't mean that the entire movie was terrible, just that part of it. X-men movies never seem to get that break, kinda seems like for some people (not everybody) if their favorite character doesn't get treated well, the entire movie is a garbage fire that needs to be retconned. Fox botched some characters, no question about that, but they get condemned for that whereas the MCU can turn Hulk into a dabbing, jokester with no meaningful fights in a movie and it doesn't affect how people see the whole movie. Normally people are able to separate with the MCU and say I didn't like that individual part but overall it was good, where as Fox never seemed to get that break.

Also seemed like fox got criticism for stuff marvel gets a pass on. Fox focusing on Wolverine, Magneto, Raven and Xavier and sidelining other characters was always brought up, but the MCU did the exact same thing continually having the focus on Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Loki. Yet the MCU didn't get the same criticism. Iron man was the focus of almost every movie and got cameos in everything the same way wolverine did, but the MCU got a pass for it and fox didn't, Cap and Tony fighting each other or disagreeing and then ultimately working together happened in almost every avengers movie, the same way Charles and Erik did in the x-men franchise yet MCU mostly gets a pass and fox doesn't. Characters like Widow, Hawkeye, Hank Pym, Hulk, Vision and Wanda all got sidelined or changed to fit the story or reduced to a cool moment or two, the same way Storm, Scott, Rogue and Gambit did, yet MCU kinda gets a pass and fox didn't. There is no question the MCU does things a lot better on average but they seem to get the benefit of the doubt and people just dislike a moment or two but don't trash the whole film, where fox would make a dumb mistake or two and the whole movie got trashed.

Here are some points that are important to mention, which I think can explain some things:

- The issue about the type of development can be somewhat complicated. There are people who will like a development or not, it depends of opinions (there are people who really like Thor character arc in Endgame).

- Also, even if MCU does not develop much some characters in a movie, we at least have the trust that they will be developed more in another movie. Fox has never obtained that trust.

- When they don't like the treatment of their favorite characters in MCU, there are people who really complaint a lot about this and feel this ruins the movies for them, but there are so many who enjoys a lot the MCU movies that isn't so noticeable.

[PsychoEFrost]

As someone who adores Brie Larson and her willingness to speak truth to power, thank you for proving my point.

Proved what? I like Captain Marvel. Not my favorite MCU movie, not even top 6, but I liked it more than Black Panther, Iron Man 3, Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Cap 1 and 2, and Avengers 2.

My point that you missed was that the movie got body slammed long before it started, and well before anything was known. Every Return of Kings Manbro went over the movie with a fine-toothed comb to find every possible thing wrong with it. And it has some wrong stuff. Yan-Rogg's arc kinda petered out. Comedy took the place of gravitas in too many places. But it was a solid movie. The protagonist wasn't ill-defined at all. The plot was easy enough to follow, with an appropriate amount of twists. The time period made sense as a prequel. It wasn't just jumping forward 10 years for no reason just because it could.

[Captain Nash]

The cut the best line from the trailer out of the film "You're not looking for answers, you're looking for permission." Unless they said it and I just didn't hear it.

[Blind Wedjat]

I wish people would come up with better arguments than "BUT THE MCU DID THIS TOO??!?!!!?!" It's lazy and just deflects criticism. These films should be judged by their own standards and not to be always compared to another product. All it says is that you know the other product is actually better but you don't want to admit it.

- Comparing Charles vs Erik to Tony vs Steve makes no sense when you consider that Erik is a known terrorist that has directly killed and attempted to kill an uncountable number of people. Neither Tony or Steve have done this, nor have their disagreements up until Civil War were ever that serious. This is a false equivalence.

- Trying to act as if the MCU has sidelined a bunch of characters like the X-Men movies have makes no sense when you consider that characters like Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, the Guardians and Doctor Strange have all had their individual films. You also have to consider that in some of those films, supporting characters like the Wakandan women, Korg, Valkyrie, Wasp and Wong have felt far more important than classic X-Men like Colossus. You're trying to tell me this franchise wasn't creative or bothered enough to make different X-Men films that each focus on a different set or group of the X-Men? It's been more or less the same bloody team and the same stars for years. Again, you clearly know the focus was a problem but you don't want to admit it.

The X-Men movies will not get a pass for anything because they're hardly even good movies in the first place. That's what some people don't get for some reason. Someone can have their nitpicks on Endgame, but they're just that: nitpicks. When it comes to movies like Apocalypse and apparently Dark Phoenix, you have nitpicks and then you have continuity errors, gaping plot holes and plot contrivances, script issues, terrible dialogue, acting, and directing choices.

I'm not a comic book purist. I've never read any X-Men comics, so I don't care for accuracy. I care about good movies with good scripts. I haven't liked any of the X-Men movies with the new cast aside from First Class because they aren't good movies with good scripts.

[Force de Phenix]

Captain Marvel was a disaster of a movie which made the same mistakes as the X-Men movies (ill-defined protagonist, generic villain, nonsense plot, gimmick time period) and any criticism lobbed at it was dismissed as raging misogyny. It was better than Dark Phoenix, but only barely.

The protagonist wasn't ill defined, the Skrulls had a whole story to go along with their introduction, the time period aspect was used to fit her story in with the creation of SHIELD, and because of the personal attacks against the actress/film, any valid criticism was lost in a sea of useless hit job reviews.

The X-Men movies were a series of team films that spanned 20 years and had a focus on some characters while ignoring others. You can't compare it to one solo film.

[Blind Wedjat]

The protagonist wasn't ill defined, the Skrulls had a whole story to go along with their introduction, the time period aspect was used to fit her story in with the creation of SHIELD, and because of the personal attacks against the actress/film, any valid criticism was lost in a sea of useless hit job reviews.

The X-Men movies were a series of team films that spanned 20 years and had a focus on some characters while ignoring others. You can't compare it to one solo film.

That's just the thing: the fact that these recent X-Men films have been so generic, so inconsequential and have repeated the same themes, character arcs and plot beats over and over again, you can indeed compare the multitude to one solo film. That's how bad the development is.

People don't realise that by trying to make these comparisons they're just pointing out the flaws but refusing to accept them.

[Colossus1980]

Captain Marvel was a disaster of a movie which made the same mistakes as the X-Men movies (ill-defined protagonist, generic villain, nonsense plot, gimmick time period) and any criticism lobbed at it was dismissed as raging misogyny. It was better than Dark Phoenix, but only barely.

You mean the movie that 'faked' it to 427M domestic and 1.127B WW? The one that rode the coattails of the Endgame to those numbers? Not my favorite MCU movie but got to give it credit for those crazy BO numbers.