X-Men: Dark Phoenix film

[Divine Spark]

the 90s animated did a billion times better of handling the story than the foxmen movie.

It certainly wasn’t anywhere near close to being four years worth of build up though.

[butterflykyss]

It certainly wasn’t anywhere near close to being four years worth of build up though.

agreed but the fact that it did have some of the essential elements leading to dark Phoenix I think is why he would be more forgiving.

[Jokerz79]

It certainly wasn’t anywhere near close to being four years worth of build up though.

Two years of building relationships like the comics because it wasn't 4 straight years of Phoenix but 4 years of building relationships to get to Dark Phoenix while putting the pieces in place. Back to X-Men TAS then a Phoenix Saga miniseries before Dark Phoenix. Feige when talking about Phase 3 said you had to do all the films before Civil War for the events to have meaning and he was right. Last Stand had a slight chance but wasted it. We only met the bulk of this cast one film ago and they were supporting characters compared to their 1st Class Castmates. Kinberg did little building of the central characters Jean and Scott is skipping the Phoenix Saga and portions of the Dark Phoenix Saga and that's why even with all the cheesy "Destroy" dialogue due to censors X-Men TAS is still the best telling of the Dark Phoenix Saga on film because it did as much justice to the story as it could.

[Divine Spark]

Two years of building relationships like the comics because it wasn't 4 straight years of Phoenix but 4 years of building relationships to get to Dark Phoenix while putting the pieces in place. Back to X-Men TAS then a Phoenix Saga miniseries before Dark Phoenix. Feige when talking about Phase 3 said you had to do all the films before Civil War for the events to have meaning and he was right. Last Stand had a slight chance but wasted it. We only met the bulk of this cast one film ago and they were supporting characters compared to their 1st Class Castmates. Kinberg did little building of the central characters Jean and Scott is skipping the Phoenix Saga and portions of the Dark Phoenix Saga and that's why even with all the cheesy "Destroy" dialogue due to censors X-Men TAS is still the best telling of the Dark Phoenix Saga on film because it did as much justice to the story as it could.

I don’t think he is referring to the relationship of Scott and Jean because that was already build way before Jean became Phoenix.

And we met the bulk of this cast in First Class.

[Jokerz79]

I don’t think he is referring to the relationship of Scott and Jean because that was already build way before Jean became Phoenix.

And we met the bulk of this cast in First Class.

These versions Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Nightcrawler were introduced in Apocalypse and Quicksilver was a cameo in DOFP.

Actually Scott and Jean's love story grew by leap and bounds during that time including their psychic bond. Also it was just them the X-Men were willing to die for Jean Logan loved her and Storm loved her as a sister all those relationships built over those 4 years made the X-Men' s willingness to fight for Jean and their grief at her death more powerful just like in the TAS.

[Divine Spark]

These versions Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Nightcrawler were introduced in Apocalypse and Quicksilver was a cameo in DOFP.

Actually Scott and Jean's love story grew by leap and bounds during that time including their psychic bond. Also it was just them the X-Men were willing to die for Jean Logan loved her and Storm loved her as a sister all those relationships built over those 4 years made the X-Men' s willingness to fight for Jean and their grief at her death more powerful just like in the TAS.

Yes, but we know Jean, Xavier, Scott, Magneto, Beast, and Mystique are the focal characters of this film. Storm, Nightcrawler, and Quicksilver will have supporting roles with Quicksilver barely being in the movie.

[Mutant 77]

FILMS are not like TV SERIES.
Only TV SERIES can provide enough "building" like John Byrne said.
There's no enough building in AVENGERS 1 too, or any other MCU team movie.

[juan678]

new fan art

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

FILMS are not like TV SERIES.
Only TV SERIES can provide enough "building" like John Byrne said.
There's no enough building in AVENGERS 1 too, or any other MCU team movie.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Thanos in Infinity War may've been teased since The Avengers, but the only thing we knew was that he wanted the gems. Even then, that was only revealed in Guardians of the Galaxy. There wasn't any buildup in regards to what he was gonna do with them, his motivations or anything else. That was all heaped on during Infinity War.

[SpiderClops]

Build-up doesn't mean revealing all your plans. Jeez.

[Indigo_Lady]

FILMS are not like TV SERIES.
Only TV SERIES can provide enough "building" like John Byrne said.
There's no enough building in AVENGERS 1 too, or any other MCU team movie.

Let's face it, it's an ensemble movie. If you want character buildup you have to have several solo movies that feature only a handful of characters before you put them together, which the MCU had done with key players for the Avenger movies and DC did for the Justice League movies. The only character that Fox did that with was Logan. I would rather have had a Storm solo than how many solo movies they made for Wolverine. Maybe MCU will do that for the X-Men.

[Divine Spark]

Build-up doesn't mean revealing all your plans. Jeez.

He wasn’t just talking about his plans. Didin’t get any real insight into his character other then he is the big bad. All they ever did was teased the guy until Infinity War then they explored him and his relationship with Gamora.

[SpiderClops]

Let's face it, it's an ensemble movie. If you want character buildup you have to have several solo movies that feature only a handful of characters before you put them together, which the MCU had done with key players for the Avenger movies and DC did for the Justice League movies. The only character that Fox did that with was Logan. I would rather have had a Storm solo than how many solo movies they made for Wolverine. Maybe MCU will do that for the X-Men.

Guardians of the Galaxy would like to have a word with you.

Man, I really really don't want to get into Fox vs. MCU(I just cancelled a post after writing a whole paragraph because I didn't want to drag that crap), but why can't you guys accept that Fox just sucks at, scratch that, don't even attempt at team dynamics. It has little to do with not having solo movies. Fox's X-Men "team" movies don't even try to be team movies. There is no attempt. Hell, Justice League does a better job. At least there is an honest to god effort put in there to make it a team movie. You see that movie and it's clear as day that everyone involved in it understood that it's an ensemble movie. Maybe not everyone got to shine, maybe some cast's backstory was half-baked. But there was a sincere effort put in there. I can't say that about any of the X-Men movies.

[Divine Spark]

Did Gamora and Thanos ever had a scene together before Infinity War?

[Jokerz79]

Of course you can develop more on a television series over films but you can still develop the storylines and needed emotional beats in films it's done all the time.

Speaking of Avengers (2012) it didn't need to develop it's main characters because all were developed in their solo films even it's villain Loki was developed in Thor. All that was needed was start the foundation of the relationships between the team which they did the one exception was Hawkeye who was definitely a glorified extra hence the need of the farm scenes in Age of Ultron to develop him. Which leads to another key element if you don't have time to tell the story at least create moments an audience can relate to and see progression of relationships. Vision and Wanda probably had 20 minutes of screen time total in the MCU yet in AoU he saves her, next Civil War showed how their relationship progressed with him phasing into her room constantly to the point they have talked about it as she pointed out, his making her a childhood favorite dish shows he cares and knows details about her childhood, and him becoming distracted something he thought impossible when she is hurt. Then in Infinity War we see them living together and it's been an ongoing thing to the point he want to take off with her. All these little moments makes her having to kill him more heartbreaking because it gave the audience the emotional cords needed to attach too. Same with Gamora and Nebula the Thanos torturing Nebula scene to force Gamora to give him the location of the Soul Stone isn't as impactful without the scene in GOTG Vol. 2 where Nebula relates all the torture she suffered at Thanos’ hands as a child due to Gamora's victories in combat and how all she ever really wanted was a sister. That's the issue with Dark Phoenix Jean is the central character of the story and this version of the character has yet to develop the needed relationships or moments for a fight with her to have the emotional impact it had in the comics, TAS, or even Last Stand because at least in Last Stand as much as I hated it they developed Logan's love for her in the previous films. Scott and Jean in Apocalypse are shown to be attracted to each other and share a fear of their powers but that's it there are no moments to grow attachment yes she comforts him when Alex dies but the guy lost his brother you could swap anyone there it wasn't a scene special to them. The only possible moments were the Mall Scenes where we see them bonding and they were cut I'll even throw some shade at Avengers to show the importance of this a scene in Avengers loss it's emotional beat due to a cut scene the waitress seeing Cap's face after he saved her because in a cut scene we learned Steve was a regular at the dinner she worked and had a somewhat flirtatious relationship with her even Stan Lee in a cameo commented he should ask her out without that scene the unmasked Cap scene lost a lot of its impact and only had any due to her scene at the end defending Cap and the Avengers in the Media montage. If this film was X-Men Onslaught instead of Dark Phoenix it'd be better simply because in the trailers it appears Jean kills Mystique and this divides the team. Well Jean doesn't have a in depth relationship with most of the players that Mystique's death will affect including Mystique herself but Charles. Him killing his “sister” and his best friends Beast and Magneto hunting him down while his students who he has mentored and given a home try to save him as he has done for them is a more emotional story given the past films developed those relationships than this version of Jean going bad because they didn't put in the leg work to develop the needed relationships to make the story impactful. The final act of the Dark Phoenix Saga is the battle on the blue area of the moon and it's impactful due to the relationships build before it. The Shi'Ar owe Jean everything and Lilandra considers her a friend but they are willing to kill her to protect the universe the X-Men know on a logical level the Shi'Ar are right but don't care they will protect Jean who they love even if it cost them their lives and Jean ends up giving her own to save them all from herself dying in front of the mind she has shared everything with even her mind. A new alien character corrupting Jean and Jean killing/fighting with friends while other friends all we have barely seen her interact with trying to save her doesn't have the same impact it can't.