X-Men: Dark Phoenix film

[Jalysia]

The 'X' on these costumes look pretty bad. Can't believe I'm saying this, but they should've gone the original X-Factor route.

It's like the costume people did a really crappy job of hot gluing them on.

"It looks cheap and crooked, but oh well, at least these dopes at FOX are paying me."

[juan678]

[Divine Spark]

I don't think it is too much to ask for one of, if not the largest X-Men stories of all-time to be treated with the gravitas it deserves. As those before me have said, the entire Dark Phoenix concept loses all meaning when you have no setup with Jean as Phoenix as a hero. The entire story works because Jean was the most in control of her emotions and powers before things went wrong. Going from shuttle to evil Jean with nothing in between completely misses the entire concept of the story as a whole. The fact that Charles and Erik were not involved in the original story, and are only there because of the success of First Class just adds fuel to the fire. Scott is completely punchable in the trailer, and has zero emotional connection to Jean. Nightcrawler and Quicksilver are there entirely because they had hit scenes in X2 and DofP, not by what they bring to the story or those involved.

Jean started showing signs of losing control four issues after she got her power-up and Charles was involved in the original Dark Phoenix.

The Dark Phoenix Saga should be approached progressively. There should be some build up so that we could feel empathy for Jean and the X-Men. Sansa Jean has just appeared last movie, we barely know this Jean Grey and she becomes Dark Phoenix. Sorry, but for me, that's not only ridiculous but a little insulting for the people that love these characters. FOX has treated them with such disrespect for me (that's my opinion, you are free not to agree), that's almost insulting.

Good thing they are adapting her backstory in the film. Something Jean didn’t have until after Dark Phoenix.

[Mutant 77]

It's like the costume people did a really crappy job of hot gluing them on.

"It looks cheap and crooked, but oh well, at least these dopes at FOX are paying me."

Oh... well... maybe you got confused with your X-Men action figures, because the costumes in 'Dark Phoenix' are wonderful.

[Stormrocks]

I agree that this should be done progressively. Part of the reason why the Dark Phoenix was so great was that we saw Jean as Phoenix first and got to like the character before she turned into the Dark Phoenix.

The "Phoenix Saga" happened in Uncanny X-Men #101-108, which came out in 1976 & 1977. We saw her use her power to save the universe and do other heroic deeds. That gave us time to get the know and care about the Jean as Phoenix. It wasn't until a full 3 years later that we got the "Dark Phoenix Saga" in Uncanny X-Men #129-138, released in 1980. Even then we went on the journey with her as she fell prey to the Hellfire Club manipulations. We saw her struggle with and ultimate lose the battle to maintain control. Jean has been and still ranks low for me in terms of my favorite X-Men characters, however I cared and felt for her when she committed suicide on the moon to stop her path of destruction, thanks to the way the story was crafted and told.

From all the trailers I've seen, that's not the story Kinberg is telling. Everything I've seen looks like Kinberg is re-making X-Men 3. Even ignoring the cure part, the Dark Phoenix story line from X-3 wasn't a good adaptation of the source material. And this time around we have even less of a build up to appreciate Jean as a character before losing her to the Dark Phoenix. Nothing in Kinberg's past works leads me to believe he is skilled enough to pull this off, especially in one movie.

[Jokerz79]

Oh... well... maybe you got confused with your X-Men action figures, because the costumes in 'Dark Phoenix' are wonderful.

Is owning X-Men merchandise now a bad thing?

[PsychoEFrost]

Is owning X-Men merchandise now a bad thing?

Well, if it is made by Marvel not Fox...

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

It's like the costume people did a really crappy job of hot gluing them on.

"It looks cheap and crooked, but oh well, at least these dopes at FOX are paying me."

I get the whole 'it's supposed to not look cool' angle, but that is one hell of a flat 'X'. Just... why bother if it doesn't look anything like an 'X'?

[WallStreeter]

I agree that this should be done progressively. Part of the reason why the Dark Phoenix was so great was that we saw Jean as Phoenix first and got to like the character before she turned into the Dark Phoenix.

The "Phoenix Saga" happened in Uncanny X-Men #101-108, which came out in 1976 & 1977. We saw her use her power to save the universe and do other heroic deeds. That gave us time to get the know and care about the Jean as Phoenix. It wasn't until a full 3 years later that we got the "Dark Phoenix Saga" in Uncanny X-Men #129-138, released in 1980. Even then we went on the journey with her as she fell prey to the Hellfire Club manipulations. We saw her struggle with and ultimate lose the battle to maintain control. Jean has been and still ranks low for me in terms of my favorite X-Men characters, however I cared and felt for her when she committed suicide on the moon to stop her path of destruction, thanks to the way the story was crafted and told.

From all the trailers I've seen, that's not the story Kinberg is telling. Everything I've seen looks like Kinberg is re-making X-Men 3. Even ignoring the cure part, the Dark Phoenix story line from X-3 wasn't a good adaptation of the source material. And this time around we have even less of a build up to appreciate Jean as a character before losing her to the Dark Phoenix. Nothing in Kinberg's past works leads me to believe he is skilled enough to pull this off, especially in one movie.

We saw Jean in XMen Apocalypse save the world and destroy Apocalypse, who was basically a god.

So we have seen her as Phoenix.

This is now moving into the Dark Phoenix territory.

This film not only has no cure, there’s no Wolverine. It finally shows a Cyclops/Jean romance.

Jean actually gets dialogue in this film and in the trailers alone gets more action than Jean saw in XMen 3.

[PsychoEFrost]

We saw Jean in XMen Apocalypse save the world and destroy Apocalypse, who was basically a god.

So we have seen her as Phoenix.

This is now moving into the Dark Phoenix territory.

This film not only has no cure, there’s no Wolverine. It finally shows a Cyclops/Jean romance.

Jean actually gets dialogue in this film and in the trailers alone gets more action than Jean saw in XMen 3.

Not really. Her being the magic Deus Ex Machina for the last movie doesn't mean we saw Jean as Phoenix. She had barely any characterization last movie. This one they go immediately into her being evil.

[Stormrocks]

Not really. Her being the magic Deus Ex Machina for the last movie doesn't mean we saw Jean as Phoenix. She had barely any characterization last movie. This one they go immediately into her being evil.

Exactly. I still don't care about Jean being bad, because I don't know this Jean. All the characters being shocked/dismayed/devastated because she turned evil is lost on the viewers because she's had zero character development. And the story telling again shifts the heavy, emotional betrayal of her actions to Charles for whatever he did to Jean, instead of laying the consequences of her action on her shoulders for giving in to the temptation of her powers. They are giving Jean an out for her bad behavior by making it Charles's fault. I am sure Kinberg think this terrible plot adds to the emotional layering of the story, but it actually takes away from it. It lessens Jean's heroic act of a sacrificial death.

[Indigo_Lady]

It's like the costume people did a really crappy job of hot gluing them on.

"It looks cheap and crooked, but oh well, at least these dopes at FOX are paying me."

I agree with you, the costumes are crappy. I would have liked to have seen the costumes that were in the last team scene in Apocalypse. Those were at least reminiscent of their actual costumes in the comic books. These look like they really skimped on the costume budget.

[Askani's Flame]

Exactly. I still don't care about Jean being bad, because I don't know this Jean. All the characters being shocked/dismayed/devastated because she turned evil is lost on the viewers because she's had zero character development. And the story telling again shifts the heavy, emotional betrayal of her actions to Charles for whatever he did to Jean, instead of laying the consequences of her action on her shoulders for giving in to the temptation of her powers. They are giving Jean an out for her bad behavior by making it Charles's fault. I am sure Kinberg think this terrible plot adds to the emotional layering of the story, but it actually takes away from it. It lessens Jean's heroic act of a sacrificial death.

Yeah, I feel like that should have done a two movie run to give this story the depth it needs. Right now all we have seen is that Jean is powerful and she takes on Apocalypse and wins. There hasn't been much character development for any of the younger X-Men thus far. So we aren't invested in them fully as we are supposed to be with Xavier, Magneto, Beast, and Mystique. A film in between this showing the growth of the characters, Jean's continued emerging powers, the romance of Scott and Jean, this all would be perfect leading into the film they are presenting. But it's not there, so it feels hollow. Why should we care as these aren't the same X-Men from the original trilogy? I'll see if but it won't have any of the same feels I got seeing Jean go all Phoenixy during X2.

[WallStreeter]

Not really. Her being the magic Deus Ex Machina for the last movie doesn't mean we saw Jean as Phoenix. She had barely any characterization last movie. This one they go immediately into her being evil.

Number one, only very recently did it occur to Hollywood that’s its possible for a woman to lead a superhero movie. Expecting them to do a Phoenix movie and then a Dark Phoenix movie is a bit much especially when it took Marvel all this time to make a Captain Marvel movie. Fans do news to be aware of the constraints filmmakers are facing. Considering the way Jean was treated by both Marvel and Fox 15 years ago(killed off in all media) we are very lucky to have a film focusing on Jean. This finally happened when social attitudes changed and when the industry itself changed.

[WallStreeter]

Yeah, I feel like that should have done a two movie run to give this story the depth it needs. Right now all we have seen is that Jean is powerful and she takes on Apocalypse and wins. There hasn't been much character development for any of the younger X-Men thus far. So we aren't invested in them fully as we are supposed to be with Xavier, Magneto, Beast, and Mystique. A film in between this showing the growth of the characters, Jean's continued emerging powers, the romance of Scott and Jean, this all would be perfect leading into the film they are presenting. But it's not there, so it feels hollow. Why should we care as these aren't the same X-Men from the original trilogy? I'll see if but it won't have any of the same feels I got seeing Jean go all Phoenixy during X2.

How much character development do we see in Avengers films? Little in the team movies. People watching these films for character action, not character development. Of course acting has to be good, but movie audiences are mass audiences that frankly do not care about following books written 40 years ago. Die hard fans nerd out too much sometime. All these movies making a billion or more dollars are making money of mostly people who never read the comics. Disney keeps the comics around only to test out new ideas for films,tv series, cartoons, etc.