Pitch a Direction: Titans

[darud]

Batman fighting against the Joker is one thing. Batman fighting against the Joker while repeating the same story beats is something else entirely. Raven being possessed became so definitive of the character it was practically a running gag and basically meant that she couldnÂ’t be anything else. And each time they repeated it, it was worse than the last.

You realize I can answer you just like that, Batman always fighting Joker is a running gag and basically meant that he couldn’t be anything else, it became boring since quite a while now.
Raven going evil is part of her character, so? It can be done in many different ways with many different outcomes and with new creative takes on that, I don't see any problem with that if the story is good and beliveable

Again, I am not saying the attempts to re-capture the NTT magic was successful. I am just saying it was done and has been done repeatedly.

And what I am saying is that it was never done seriously and for the long run, and the team was neevr allowed the status of the original NTT. Is not just bring in the same members or some similar replacements, its about let them be what they were back then, gave them back the same status

Starfire has never beaten Wonder Woman. Raven being a universe destroyer is more tell than show. Trigon is a Satan expy in a universe full of Satan expies and isnÂ’t even the most powerful one there.
Johns had the League showing up to boss the Titans around and this included Starfire, Cyborg, Beast Boy and Raven on the team.

Starfire had KO-ed WW right in their first meeting. I can dig if you wish for some universe like feats for Raven too, beside those statements (something with her empathic and souls control powers). I just pointed those out to see that isn't any PIS in this case.
Trigon is the most powerful there and his status is really high overall. Also iirc Johns League did come to boss the TT but Raven wasn't there and Starfire just told them to hit the road (she also had a fight with WW). And she prevailed in her wishes at the end, unlike the Fab five who caved right away to the JL demands

The sidekicks were doing their own thing and not taking orders from their mentors long before the NTT characters were conceived. Teen heroes becoming independent wasnÂ’t some new idea that came from the NTT characters. There is nothing about the NTT line up that is inherently more independent than the Fab Five.

Their whole history tells us different

I feel like a lot of comic book fans donÂ’t know what PIS actually means. Wally getting beaten by one of TrigonÂ’s sons is more PIS than him being able to beat Trigon and Garth has feats like holding his own against the Spectre and sending Atlantis to the past. The only reason you think they look silly is because they werenÂ’t like that from the beginning which is a nonsensical argument given how many comic book characters start out as weaker than their current incarnations. By your logic, taking down the League isnÂ’t an impressive feat given that Green Lantern used to have a weakness to the color yellow, Wonder Woman could be beaten by binding her hands once upon a time and Superman was initially a really strong guy who could jump really high.

It doesn't make much sense, what you say, or I don't get it right. Wally was beaten by Trigon son, by Raven, he couldn't do anything to Trigon himself (not alone, anyway, Raven was doing the heavy lifting and she needed others help too). To come now and say he can just punch hard Trigon and beat him like that is ridiculous and PIS, yes. Raven taking down the JL didn't had anything with color yellow, tying up WW or Superman physical prowess, it was related with her magic or mystical powers which she always had and won't be unrealistic to do that to the JL in any story arcs over time, nothing should be significantly different today.

Garth magic growing over time is cool, I didn't followed the character so I can't say much yet I never heard of him as closing in to Fate or Zatanna (or Raven) magic power levels. Which he anyway need to surpass to have a shot vs someone like Trigon, so if that was some outlier and such it will still look out of place for him to be able to do that.

To end this since it become a bit repetitve

This is the original NTT and Raven or Starfire dealing with the Justice League

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...7fd9ad50f0be68

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads...lts+hurt+1.jpg

https://i.redd.it/hzq1dqwjh4e11.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads...er+woman+2.jpg

and here are the Titans with the Fab five core dealing with the JL

http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/up...spoilers-3.jpg

http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/up...poilers-10.jpg