Pitch a Direction: Titans

[OBrianTallent]

I see a lot of points in this thread. Some of them are points that I agree with, others are points that I very much disagree with. For starters: shelving the brand is a mistake at this point in time. Could I have seen a time where not having a Teen Titans team would've been beneficial? Yes, during the New 52 era specifically. But now the (Teen) Titans have a hit television show on a moderately successful streaming service as well as a, whether you like it or not, incredibly successful and lucrative children's TV show. To have them disappear from the comics entirely is a bad idea, and it's not going to happen, not completely. And I wouldn't want it to. The Titans literally brought DC back from bankruptcy, I don't care what Didio says, they deserve respect.

I was going to come in here and suggest a Titans team that outside of a core four doesn't have a set team, and I'm still going to suggest it, but that isn't going to be my main point because I've come up with another that I like more based on the responses here. But first, that team: cancel the Teen Titans team indefinitely, to start. There is only one team of Titans, and it is this one. A team on part with the Justice League that deals with similar, if more centralized, threats. It is lead by Nightwing, Donna Troy, Starfire, and Wally West. These are the only four members of the team that appear in every arc and if we're working off of current continuity, make it five and change Wally to both Raven and Beast Boy. They are the constants. Otherwise, the remaining two to four spots on the team belong to the other Titans - Omen, Bumblebee, Guardian, Cyborg, etc, who sub in based on the arc. There's also a younger team that takes the focus sometimes that the Titans are teaching. They're all based in the tower.

The other option that I like more upon reflection is a group of Titans that is diametrically opposed to the Justice League. The League hasn't had a team that directly opposes the things that they do other than as a group of villains as a long time, they haven't had a true heroic rival. Why can't or shouldn't that be the heroes that they have trained that should for all intents and purposes not be as jaded as the league is. A more optimistic, A-Level superhero team. That's what the Titans should be. Define the Titans as being on the same level of the League in an event that forces them to oppose each other... philosophically. And The Titans should be written as the ones in the right, and correctly so at that. Then spin the team out of the event (in an ideal world for me this would be Nightwing, Donna Troy, Cyborg, Omen, Beast Boy, Terra, and Starfire) and have them deal with Justice League level threats as well as threats that are limited to the Titans. Have them prove their worth and continue to paint them as good as the League in other titles as well as their own. Maintain the rivalry, but make it a rather friendly one. Make the Titans the... friendlier alternative to the League. Still have them based in a Titans Tower, ideally the one in New York or a newly introduced Jump City. Where the League is untouchable in their lofty satellite... the Titans portray themselves as human and approachable.

This would be an excellent concept! Great job.

[Lightning Rider]

For the last couple days I’ve been playing around with the idea of the Titans being the first responders of the DCU hero community. While the JL is dealing with the massive world ending events every other Tuesday, the titans would be the boots on the ground directly interacting with the people.

It’s not about the titans or it’s members being worth less than the league, just that they are doing things that the league really can’t.

This is a good basic direction.

In fact, each of them can be more entrenched in community efforts that deal with youth, using their own experiences not just to relate to young heroes but ordinary children with troubled pasts. Cyborg can build a non-profit cybernetics where children can get complicated limb replacement and learn about technology, moving past the whole "machine or man" sadness; Raven can counsel kids with anger management and maybe even spiritual disturbance; Gar and/or Garth can do globe-trotting animal rescue or habitat conservation; Roy can help with a rehab center; Donna does empowerment through photography with young aspiring girls.

It may sound all kumbaya, but of course these are just grounds for them to build new relationships with new supporting characters, present new problems that don't involve punching a bad guy, but of course have it involve new mysteries and dangers and challenges. Also, it still roots them as characters familiar with being marginalized and lonely and sometimes outright cursed, but it shows them as mature competent adults able to deal with that baggage, who are nevertheless connected to the youth.

Might be a bit too camp counselor for some, but if handled right and injected with enough dramatic weight, it could work.

[DrNewGod]

Honestly, I wouldn't do an ongoing. I just don't think its there anymore with this franchise. When a creator pops up with a good idea and a 6-12 issue limited series is born, great, but these characters (when together) have been going through the motions for about three decades now, trying to recapture NTT.

I do think there are quality stories to be told, don't get me wrong. I'm just not optimistic we'll ever consistently see them.

That's a problem with many comics from The Big Two these days; editors can't seem to tell the difference between a really good Elseworlds or Limited Series idea, and a viable on-going.

[Arsenal]

This is a good basic direction.

In fact, each of them can be more entrenched in community efforts that deal with youth, using their own experiences not just to relate to young heroes but ordinary children with troubled pasts. Cyborg can build a non-profit cybernetics where children can get complicated limb replacement and learn about technology, moving past the whole "machine or man" sadness; Raven can counsel kids with anger management and maybe even spiritual disturbance; Gar and/or Garth can do globe-trotting animal rescue or habitat conservation; Roy can help with a rehab center; Donna does empowerment through photography with young aspiring girls.

It may sound all kumbaya, but of course these are just grounds for them to build new relationships with new supporting characters, present new problems that don't involve punching a bad guy, but of course have it involve new mysteries and dangers and challenges. Also, it still roots them as characters familiar with being marginalized and lonely and sometimes outright cursed, but it shows them as mature competent adults able to deal with that baggage, who are nevertheless connected to the youth.

Might be a bit too camp counselor for some, but if handled right and injected with enough dramatic weight, it could work.

You could even throw some panels or lines in showing the Titans checking up on some of the people they've saved in previous issues. Would help sell the idea that the titans are the champions of the people and make them stand out as something beyond being just another superhero team.

[DrNewGod]

My idea would never work because it requires senior editorial enforcing a decision to make the Titans generally off-limits to Big Events. For a motivating reason, have the Titans mainly exist to provide one another backup and assistance, more of a cooperative than a team. Have the stories largely be solo adventures that often involve calling each other in, or multiple solo adventures that intersect at some point. Return to most (not all, but most) of the members being ex-sidekicks who wouldn't join The League if begged because they're not going back to work for The Mentor (which is why they have to be off-limits for most of The Big Events).

[Dred]

Not so. Clark's been a superhero since he was a teenager in most continuities, he definitely was at the time of the original NTT stories (see the entire Legion of Superheros mythos at that point). Bruce was training for his mission as soon as his parents died, and at one point he was the first Robin. I'm less certain on J'onn and Arthur, but Diana is definitely not the only one who has been training since childhood.

Dick doesn't need to cleanly surpass Bruce. The whole point of his arc in NTT was angsting about not being as driven as Bruce or being as good of a detective, and growing into his own man who has his own niche to get over it. He was a better leader than Bruce at that time, which set him apart and why the "Batman as leader of the JL" nonsense we get in a lot of modern takes screws over Dick, as well as other JL members. So it's possible to surpass them in some areas, not necessary to surpass them in all. Make them peers. Why is necessary for all of them to surpass their mentors just because Wally did it?

Yeah except for literally all the stories about how Bruce wants and is training Dick to be better than him. It is the job of the mentor to get their students to surpass them. If not they're bad mentors.

Superman you kind of have a point on with LOSH, but Batman wasn't training to be a superhero perse, and certainly not for the situations he finds himself in. Oliver is also not in that camp and J'onn came into his role as a Martian protector and warrior into adulthood, though M'gann wasn't every really his young protege for any particular length of time.

My basic point is, think of all that Bruce has learned and created and figured out that he did not have access to when he started his training. Dick has all of that AND he's mentally less compromised. A lot of people think Dick is too boring because he's so great, but how does that even apply in a world where Bruce always overshadows him? And don't pretend he doesn't just because Dick changed his name to Nightwing. We're in a Titans thread, after all.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Honestly, there's so many issues with the brand Im not sure how DC could fix it. I myself think the Titans name needs to be put on a shelf and ignored for a few years.

I don't think they need to be retired. In fact, I'd say that now, as opposed to any other time, is a great time to capitalize on the team with the Titans TV show being such a success.

The answer to me is simple: stop making them a junior Justice League. They are NOT the Justice League. They are their own team with their own way of doing things. They just need writers and editors who understand that.

DC should just launch a book with a line-up similar to that on the show: Raven, Beast Boy, Nightwing, Starfire, Donna Troy, Hawk and Dove. Throw in Vic for good measure if you want. Now, of course, don't ape the show's characterizations, but it would be good to get a little synergy in there. Say that Dick has brought them together in order to pursue a resurgent HIVE that is setting meta-terrorist cells throughout the world. Let it have nothing to do with what the League has got going on.

Also, give Raven and Beast Boy their pre-Flashpoint personalities and histories back please. And, in all honesty, I would like to see them give serious thought to Hank and Dawn as an actual romantic couple.

[byrd156]

This is a good basic direction.

In fact, each of them can be more entrenched in community efforts that deal with youth, using their own experiences not just to relate to young heroes but ordinary children with troubled pasts. Cyborg can build a non-profit cybernetics where children can get complicated limb replacement and learn about technology, moving past the whole "machine or man" sadness; Raven can counsel kids with anger management and maybe even spiritual disturbance; Gar and/or Garth can do globe-trotting animal rescue or habitat conservation; Roy can help with a rehab center; Donna does empowerment through photography with young aspiring girls.

It may sound all kumbaya, but of course these are just grounds for them to build new relationships with new supporting characters, present new problems that don't involve punching a bad guy, but of course have it involve new mysteries and dangers and challenges. Also, it still roots them as characters familiar with being marginalized and lonely and sometimes outright cursed, but it shows them as mature competent adults able to deal with that baggage, who are nevertheless connected to the youth.

Might be a bit too camp counselor for some, but if handled right and injected with enough dramatic weight, it could work.

Sign me up for more kumbaya in comics.

[Godlike13]

I think its important to remember, Titans does work in that people do want it and are receptive to it. Even as crap as the last series was creatively, it didn't do bad in the current market. So people are receptive to it. And not just in comics. The TV show seems to be received well. Its not something that the market is asking for to go away, but more just to do better.

[oasis1313]

The original Teen Titans back in the 60's had a mission toward helping other teens who were in trouble.

[Lightning Rider]

You could even throw some panels or lines in showing the Titans checking up on some of the people they've saved in previous issues. Would help sell the idea that the titans are the champions of the people and make them stand out as something beyond being just another superhero team.

Exactly. A few recurring characters and youth, powered and non powered, would give that sense of continuity and community. Even the most down-to-Earth JL members like the Flash are often too busy doing something over the top to ever showcase recurring local faces and thankful citizens.

[Aahz]

Oliver is also not in that camp

Roy has also not that much training (and at least for some time the writers keep pushing the Idea that Emiko is a better archer than Oliver).

[Dred]

Roy has also not that much training (and at least for some time the writers keep pushing the Idea that Emiko is a better archer than Oliver).

Roy has been fighting supervillains since he was a child. That's kind of my point. Same with the rest of the Titans.

[Masterff]

I personally like the Idea of 3 Titans Teams:

1. CLASSIC Titans (NEW YORK): Nightwing, Wally, Donna, Roy (Lian), , Tempest, Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy
2. NEW Titans (San Francisco): Tim, Bart, Cassie, Mia, Conner, Tula , Bombshell, Raven,Amethyst, Miss Martian (Supergirl and Orphan as close friends)
3. Teen Titans : Damian, Wally 2, Red Arrow, Jonathan, Aqualad, Crush, Djinn, Roundhose, Teen Lantern


I tried to make it so that (almost) every Team has a member of each family so for example Aqua- Family: Tempest in CLASSIC Titans, Tula in NEW Titans and Aqualad in the Teen Titans.
Or Arrow Family: Roy in CLASSIC Titans, Mia in NEW Titans and Red Arrow (Emiko Queen) in Teen Titans..

[Ascended]

As for the actual event? I'd keep it semi-simple and brand related, and make it something that maintains the Titans being at least part of the central focus: Raven. The Titans literally have what amounts to a ticking time bomb resting on their primary membership much like the X-Men's connection to the Phoenix Force, and that alone is Raven. Raven's the daughter of the literal DC equivalent to the Judeo-Christian Satan, and it's been a part of her character that she threatens to become like her father, to the point that she actually has on multiple occasions and it's basically been a non-factor. What if the next time, it isn't?

Then there's the Titans, who know Raven. Raven is one of their allies and friends. They know her better than the League does. Clearly, she can't be this big bad that they now believe her to be - so they'd protect her at all costs. It's only natural. And in the end, while it may look like Raven really IS going to be this big bad and do the bad thing, it would turn out that there was an equal chance that she would be the one that brought an end to the madness... which she does, but at a cost: Trigon is gone, and his realm is locked away, but it needs a ruler. And that ruler is Raven.

Ha! I suggested the same thing earlier in the thread! Are you stealing my ideas?

Yeah, so don't cash in on the nostalgia until editorial gets over itself and has a good writer who can deliver on it, and not prevent them from telling stories. Though a more talented writer than Abnett could have made some lemonade out of those lemons, some of the blandness and crappiness on that title was down to him.

Abnett really disappointed me. Dude *is* a very talented writer when he's on his game. I mean, his Nova series with Lanning was incredible. That whole cosmic era that DnA oversaw was great. But clearly the Titans isn't a brand that Abnett connected with. I dont know if it was a lack of interest or if he just didnt find the right hook or what, but I had really expected better.

This is a property that ran out of gas as soon as Perez left. The dip in quality happened almost immediately, and they've never been that relevant again. And this has been a problem since before DiDio's been in charge. Like Ascended said, these reunions are pretty much what are needed, but they also never work. There is an innate problem with the property that has been compounded by crappy decisions through the years.

It's quite the riddle. Off the top of my head I cant think of another instance where the brand expectation was also the thing holding the IP back and driving it down. Maybe the FF?

But I think, perhaps, the crux of the problem isn't the "reunion" as much as it is the "time stop." Wolfman and Perez made the Titans one of the biggest IP's in the industry in large part because the characters were allowed to evolve and grow. That's rare in mainstream comics and the NTT did it very well. But their success became a trap, and the roster has largely been stuck in amber ever since. They're older, but they don't act like it. They should've learned more and become even better, but they still act like they're just out of their parents' house figuring out how to budget for rent. So the book that was popular because of its growth no longer allows that growth to continue.....and I think that's the problem DC has to get past. I think, and I could be wrong here because the Titans IP is a huge clusterf*ck I have no idea how to fix, but I think if DC allowed the Titans to take the next logical step forward in their lives, DC would find their way to success again.