Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[grinningdemon]

It was far less egregious than what she had been doing with Scott in Morrison's run, so it quite hypocritical of him to throw a fit over that. Besides, since when did mere infidelity demand that level of cruelty?

Never said it did...as I said, I think that whole storyline comes down to bad writing and Phoenix possession (more bad writing than anything else)...no one was in their right minds there.

That said, the method of infidelity could be viewed as insult to injury precisely because of the way they got together in the first place...but, again, I'm not defending that garbage story...OR the garbage story where they first got together.

[ZehnWaters]

(Just for curiosity, do you use Tumblr ?.)

lol Oh, Tumblr.

Ironically, it was AvX that "fixed" the misogynist angle as it made it about the PF itself being uncontrollable, not about women specifically being unable to control immense power.

I simply don't see this. The fact Jean is a women was incidental. Nothing about the story was specific to this fact (as AvX clearly showed).

As for the movie, I don't see it as misogynistic either. Xavier repressed Jean's wild side because he was afraid of it. That's misogyny (arguably at least; if Jean had been Gene he might have done the same thing). As with the Dark Phoenix saga, Jean being a women was incidental and not built into the script. You could replace her with a him and it'd be the same story.

[grinningdemon]

I simply don't see this. The fact Jean is a women was incidental. Nothing about the story was specific to this fact (as AvX clearly showed).

Agreed.

As for the movie, I don't see it as misogynistic either. Xavier repressed Jean's wild side because he was afraid of it. That's misogyny (arguably at least; if Jean had been Gene he might have done the same thing). As with the Dark Phoenix saga, Jean being a women was incidental and not built into the script. You could replace her with a him and it'd be the same story.

I can see misogyny in the movie in that the central message of the original story was ass backwards. Instead of Jean having the strength to sacrifice herself for the people she loved, she starts out by killing those people and has to be put down like a dog by Wolverine all to make him look cooler. Then again, ALL the characters in the movies get trivialized to make Wolverine look cooler so I guess it's debatable. Regardless, it was a HORRIBLE adaptation...if you can even call it that.

[PwrdOn]

Curiously enough, without the entirely inconsequential D'Bari scene, Dark Phoenix is effectively just a hedonist who is only "corrupted" because she is no longer living for the sake of other people's expectations. And even then it wasn't as if she destroyed the star because she was carelessly showing off her power, she was just hungry and it's not like there's any place on that unbelievably tight costume to keep a bag of chips or something like that. Nobody ever demanded that Galactus be killed off for eating planets after all.

[Gray Lensman]

Well, Galactus isn't a hero, so there's that.

[joe90]

[dragonmp93]

Curiously enough, without the entirely inconsequential D'Bari scene, Dark Phoenix is effectively just a hedonist who is only "corrupted" because she is no longer living for the sake of other people's expectations. And even then it wasn't as if she destroyed the star because she was carelessly showing off her power, she was just hungry and it's not like there's any place on that unbelievably tight costume to keep a bag of chips or something like that. Nobody ever demanded that Galactus be killed off for eating planets after all.

Well, how long he is not trying to eat the Earth or the Sun, everyone is cool with Galactus. And besides of the Shi'ar Empire, no one else about the brocolli people anyways.

And have you noticed that a girl with such amount of power snaps, she becomes unstoppable and invincible ?.

[grinningdemon]

Well, Galactus isn't a hero, so there's that.

Yeah, that's a big difference but it's also a difference in the times...if, for instance, Scarlet Witch had done what she did in Avengers Disassembled or House of M back in the 80s or earlier, she probably would have had to die for it...likewise, Wolverine when he was controlled in Enemy or the State probably would have earned him a dirtnap...hell, the way they act now, Marvel would have had to kill off most of its characters...there was a much greater importance on heroes acting like heroes back then.

[Narasinha]

And besides of the Shi'ar Empire, no one else about the brocolli people anyways.

Why should they care anyway ? They stated, several time, that they would destroy, and already have, any planets or civilization that threaten their little empire. Soo much for the "older and wiser civilization".

[Narasinha]

Another sketch I just received : Jean and Emma by Mitch Foust :

[Narasinha]

A little while ago, you were discussing about Jean's activities outside of the X-Men : you forgot that she, and Scott, spent 12 years raising a child... or you don't think it's a job in itself ?

[ariwl1]

A little while ago, you were discussing about Jean's activities outside of the X-Men : you forgot that she, and Scott, spent 12 years raising a child... or you don't think it's a job in itself ?

Well, being pulled by Rachel into a dystopian future for that sole purpose didn't give them a whole lot of choice in the matter to be fair.

[Narasinha]

Well, being pulled by Rachel into a dystopian future for that sole purpose didn't give them a whole lot of choice in the matter to be fair.

What does that have to do with it ? Are you saying they wouldn't have been overjoyed to be able to raise Natan if they didn't had to send him to the future ?
For me, that still count as having a life outside the X-Men...

[ariwl1]

What does that have to do with it ? Are you saying they wouldn't have been overjoyed to be able to raise Natan if they didn't had to send him to the future ?
For me, that still count as having a life outside the X-Men...

They both love Nathan, so of course they'd do it, but being psychically hijacked out of their time without so much as a by-your-leave to an awful future to raise a child whose destiny was to defeat one of the X-Men's most serious enemies is more an extreme extension of duty then life outside of the X-Men. It gave Scott a chance to be the dad situations robbed him of, and Jean went along because they were never more a package deal than they were in the 90s.

[Narasinha]

They both love Nathan, so of course they'd do it, but being psychically hijacked out of their time without so much as a by-your-leave to an awful future to raise a child whose destiny was to defeat one of the X-Men's most serious enemies is more an extreme extension of duty then life outside of the X-Men. It gave Scott a chance to be the dad situations robbed him of, and Jean went along because they were never more a package deal than they were in the 90s.

12 years... 12 years raising a child. Whatever the world and the situation they were in, that imply a very long time spent having a normal life and doing things that people did since begining of humanity.

Jean didn't just "went along". There was plenty of scenes in X-Factor that show she was really caring about Natan as if her own child and she would have done anything to protect and raise him.