Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[Ulfhammer]

Jeen needed to die. Jeen wanted to stay in this timeline to change the future, and we saw how badly that is playing out in X-Men: Blue as the Brotherhood moved into their space and screwed everything up. I think the Phoenix killed Jean to let her personally experience death and resurrection. She'll be back in 11.

Also everything Jeen thought she knew about Adult Jean and the Phoenix were from other people who really knew nothing. Jean Grey has cosmic duties as Phoenix, when she embraced. What Jeen learned about Phoenix and her adult self was mainly from reading the minds of Jean's jilted lovers (Beast and Logan) who were extremely biased.

It will be perfectly in character for Jean to remain Phoenix, as is her duty and as noted, there's no way they're bringing back a non Phoenix Jean when it's so huge that there's a move titled X-Men: Dark Phoenix. Plus the Phoenix will be even bigger as Disney closes the deal with Fox.

I'd go a step beyond calling Jean embracing the fact that she is the Phoenix as more than "fulfilling a duty". It's the functional culmination of her development as a character. WPotC is Jean embracing who she actually is. The duality of Jean vs the Pheonix was created first as a plot device to provide conflict during the DPS but was unfortunately continued after her death as being representive of a seperate entity which the balance of evidence frankly doesn't support. This culminated in the worst sin imaginable which was representing Hope in the same way.

For Marvel to reduce Jean to her strictly mutant persona reverses this development in a very extreme way. This would be like hiving off a single aspect of someone's personality and capabilities and saying "that's who you really are". Marvel's inability to depict WPotC in a compelling way is not the fault of the lore that has been built up, it's a lack of creativity on the part of the authors. Power levels do need to be controlled to some extent I'd agree but that's not the same thing we're seeing in the JG solo\P.R. which is very much a de-evolution of the character as someone who once again fears their destiny and capabilities. Something Jean has already overcome twice, first following her death on the moon and again in Endsong. The problem with the Phoenix stories that have come since has been the artificial conflict between Jean and the Phoenix (which should no longer exist) because Marvel doesn't know what to do with a stable, cosmically powered Jean.

[5cents]

i wonder when we'll get a trailer for the phoenix movie

Maybe around summer time.

[Ulfhammer]

Okay. Starting to wonder about all the weirdness in P.R. following the end of Jean Grey #10. Is the simplest solution to this not that this is Jean talking to Jeen...

phoenixres3_2-1.jpg

Why are we assuming the character that seems to have forgotten her whole life and everything she did is a cosmically ascended Jean Grey instead of a freshly dead and understandably disoriented Jeen who literally died immediately before this mini began? I feel like we're all keying off the announcement that Jean is coming back and assuming it's her that's been in this mini the whole time but there's no logical reason for Jean to be in this state. Jean has been shown as ok with the phoenix dating back to Morrison's run but Jeen has consistently fought it and her destiny from day one. Jean shouldn't have any confusion about her past, especially with Scott, but this character seems to plug Scott in the "maybe boyfriend" role, not the "used to be married role", something that's a lot closer to Jeen's reality. Doesn't escaping to some fantasy world where she's not connected to the Phoenix and is just a normal girl working a normal job seem more like Jeen's ideal fantasy world than Jean's? Wouldn't this also cleanly explain why Jeen is conveniently absent the whole length of this mini but there's still one issue of JG to go that will follow directly after this?

Help me out here folks because this actually seems like the obvious answer, rather than assuming all powerful WPotC had a psychotic break.

[ZNOP]

Okay. Starting to wonder about all the weirdness in P.R. following the end of Jean Grey #10. Is the simplest solution to this not that this is Jean talking to Jeen...

phoenixres3_2-1.jpg

Why are we assuming the character that seems to have forgotten her whole life and everything she did is a cosmically ascended Jean Grey instead of a freshly dead and understandably disoriented Jeen who literally died immediately before this mini began? I feel like we're all keying off the announcement that Jean is coming back and assuming it's her that's been in this mini the whole time but there's no logical reason for Jean to be in this state. Jean has been shown as ok with the phoenix dating back to Morrison's run but Jeen has consistently fought it and her destiny from day one. Jean shouldn't have any confusion about her past, especially with Scott, but this character seems to plug Scott in the "maybe boyfriend" role, not the "used to be married role", something that's a lot closer to Jeen's reality. Doesn't escaping to some fantasy world where she's not connected to the Phoenix and is just a normal girl working a normal job seem more like Jeen's ideal fantasy world than Jean's? Wouldn't this also cleanly explain why Jeen is conveniently absent the whole length of this mini but there's still one issue of JG to go that will follow directly after this?

Help me out here folks because this actually seems like the obvious answer, rather than assuming all powerful WPotC had a psychotic break.

I want to know where (City/State) Jeen is working as a waitress -- is it suppose Annandale on the Hudson?

[SugarMan]

Okay. Starting to wonder about all the weirdness in P.R. following the end of Jean Grey #10. Is the simplest solution to this not that this is Jean talking to Jeen...

phoenixres3_2-1.jpg

Why are we assuming the character that seems to have forgotten her whole life and everything she did is a cosmically ascended Jean Grey instead of a freshly dead and understandably disoriented Jeen who literally died immediately before this mini began? I feel like we're all keying off the announcement that Jean is coming back and assuming it's her that's been in this mini the whole time but there's no logical reason for Jean to be in this state. Jean has been shown as ok with the phoenix dating back to Morrison's run but Jeen has consistently fought it and her destiny from day one. Jean shouldn't have any confusion about her past, especially with Scott, but this character seems to plug Scott in the "maybe boyfriend" role, not the "used to be married role", something that's a lot closer to Jeen's reality. Doesn't escaping to some fantasy world where she's not connected to the Phoenix and is just a normal girl working a normal job seem more like Jeen's ideal fantasy world than Jean's? Wouldn't this also cleanly explain why Jeen is conveniently absent the whole length of this mini but there's still one issue of JG to go that will follow directly after this?

Help me out here folks because this actually seems like the obvious answer, rather than assuming all powerful WPotC had a psychotic break.

The problem with that theory is that teen Jeen wouldn't have any connection to the history and characters that have been manisfesting. But adult Jean does. Also, she wasn't ok with the last time Phoenix pulled her out of the WHR, but came around with the help of her friends.

[Ulfhammer]

The problem with that theory is that teen Jeen wouldn't have any connection to the history and characters that have been manisfesting. But adult Jean does. Also, she wasn't ok with the last time Phoenix pulled her out of the WHR, but came around with the help of her friends.

Jeen did get the telepathic download from Hank so she would at least be conversant with Jean's history but probably not the correct details which is sort of what we're seeing here. As for the WHR, I'm not convinced she isn't actually there. What's manifesting in New Mexico could easily be a portal or gateway there. Regardless if your referring to Endsong, that was prior to Jean "stabilizing" as WPotC.

If the thought process is that it's not Jean & Jeen who else could it be? The PF speaks in black word balloons and Jean speaks in white. This is consistant with a number of mediums including as recently as JG 10. So if it's not Jean that shows up at the end of PR 3 who is it?

[Ulfhammer]

I want to know where (City/State) Jeen is working as a waitress -- is it suppose Annandale on the Hudson?

I assume it is Annandale-on-Hudson because she commutes to work from home and she lives with her parents. I doubt it's actually anywhere in reality though as there's a few too many dead people hanging out there.

[ariwl1]

My suspicion is that currently Jean is not whole and needs all her pieces gathered, much like the Phoenix before has been. Her ghost form is a large portion of her who went to help her younger self and the one in Illusion-ville is a smalle portion of her esence that is her but fractured hence her lack of understanding about what's real.

I'll probably be completely wrong but that's about all I can think of to make PR and JG solo make sense at the moment.

[PhoenixStudies]

I'm tempted to think that Green Phoenix Jean and Annie's Diner Jean are both Adult Jean. However, I can also see Annie's Diner Jean being Teen Jean and Green Phoenix Jean being Adult Jean. Or Green Phoenix Jean is the Phoenix Force or a psychic projection from Adult Jean.

I love Jean, but there are so many Jeans now, its hard to tell which Jean is Jean.

Anyways, I believe these two instances are the only two times that Adult Jean ever created a telekinetic energy weapon/construct?

[Ulfhammer]

My suspicion is that currently Jean is not whole and needs all her pieces gathered, much like the Phoenix before has been. Her ghost form is a large portion of her who went to help her younger self and the one in Illusion-ville is a smalle portion of her esence that is her but fractured hence her lack of understanding about what's real.

I'll probably be completely wrong but that's about all I can think of to make PR and JG solo make sense at the moment.

The only addition JG made to this question that I can think of is ghost Jean. The issue with ghost Jean is that she's fully aware of her history and what's going on around here and "reality" if you will but she doesn't seem to have access to any of her abilities or powers. That doesn't really fit with either waitress Jean or the phoenix Jean as she appears here in PR 3.

It remains odd to me that Marvel would kill Jeen just for 4 out of 5 issues of this mini than bring her back for JG 11. She's in the solicits for 11. The timing seems oddly suspicious and since we've really only see dead people in PR to this point, Jeen making an appearance would fit the theme. Also Marvel suddenly decides to completely ignore Jeen during an event about her adult version and the phoenix after putting 10 issues into a solo about her preparing for the phoenix?

I could be completely off base but it just doesn't add up to me. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[SugarMan]

Jeen did get the telepathic download from Hank so she would at least be conversant with Jean's history but probably not the correct details which is sort of what we're seeing here. As for the WHR, I'm not convinced she isn't actually there. What's manifesting in New Mexico could easily be a portal or gateway there. Regardless if your referring to Endsong, that was prior to Jean "stabilizing" as WPotC.

If the thought process is that it's not Jean & Jeen who else could it be? The PF speaks in black word balloons and Jean speaks in white. This is consistant with a number of mediums including as recently as JG 10. So if it's not Jean that shows up at the end of PR 3 who is it?

I don't think the "downloaded history" part works either. This is intimately adult Jean we're dealibg with, including her "attraction" to Logan. I would assume if Jean came completely togethet after Endsong, we wouldn't have had AvX, or Phoenix battling the Thors, or Thane Phoenix. And she would have handled her "ghost" self differently. I don't buy it being teen Jeen, who will supposedly be back with her 05 teammates.

[jorge17881]

Hey, did we know what happened to the full white phoenix costume, it's strange that she never used it again.

Did represent something?
I don't know, but I was always intrigued with that.

Or maybe was just an error from the colorist.

[Harpsikord]

It was just an early version of the WPOTC look. When Morrison brought it back the artists decided that it looked better with gold, and tbh they were right.

Also the fake town Jean is in is called Elsewhere.

[WallStreeter]

The only addition JG made to this question that I can think of is ghost Jean. The issue with ghost Jean is that she's fully aware of her history and what's going on around here and "reality" if you will but she doesn't seem to have access to any of her abilities or powers. That doesn't really fit with either waitress Jean or the phoenix Jean as she appears here in PR 3.

It remains odd to me that Marvel would kill Jeen just for 4 out of 5 issues of this mini than bring her back for JG 11. She's in the solicits for 11. The timing seems oddly suspicious and since we've really only see dead people in PR to this point, Jeen making an appearance would fit the theme. Also Marvel suddenly decides to completely ignore Jeen during an event about her adult version and the phoenix after putting 10 issues into a solo about her preparing for the phoenix?

I could be completely off base but it just doesn't add up to me. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Ghost Jean tossed Jeen and Dr. Strange around different parts of the astral plane. She later possessed Jeen, and while possessed Jeen manifested a Phoenix effect. She then possessed Emma, and kept her knocked out. So clearly we've seen ghost Jean use her powers.

[jorge17881]

It was just an early version of the WPOTC look. When Morrison brought it back the artists decided that it looked better with gold, and tbh they were right.

Also the fake town Jean is in is called Elsewhere.

Oh, ok thank you.