Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[ariwl1]

With characters that powerful, there is just no way to keep coming up with believable threats...unless they become the threat themselves (which has already been done)...it just isn't sustainable.

Superman and those on his level have done pretty well over the years. Hell, in some views Supes is practically an allegory for a god among men.

Framing a story and informing the character can go a long ways.

[grinningdemon]

Superman and those on his level have done pretty well over the years. Hell, in some views Supes is practically an allegory for a god among men.

Framing a story and informing the character can go a long ways.

Supes has had his power levels dropped numerous times and has been written inconsistently (powers go up and down from story to story) throughout his existence for this exact reason...there is also a reason a lot of people find Superman boring...that said, the DCU in general has a lot more powerful threats than the Marvel U...characters there are just generally more powerful whereas Marvel only has a handfull of powerhouses on that level and none of them appear regularly in anything longterm at their full power level.

Framing a story and informing the character can only go so far...it can work in the short term but I maintain it's just not sustainable in the long term with any kind of consistency...and it's not very interesting either.

I love Jean Grey as a character but have little interest in seeing her return at full Phoenix power levels...I just don't see much story potential in it beyond what has already been done.

[PwrdOn]

The thing is, Jean has always been far more powerful than any of the villains the X-Men face, even without the Phoenix powers which are still remarkably ill-defined in any event. If you think about it, Magneto's only power is a watered down version of telekinesis yet the writers haven't had any problems portraying him as a credible threat even with Jean around.

[grinningdemon]

The thing is, Jean has always been far more powerful than any of the villains the X-Men face, even without the Phoenix powers which are still remarkably ill-defined in any event. If you think about it, Magneto's only power is a watered down version of telekinesis yet the writers haven't had any problems portraying him as a credible threat even with Jean around.

Jean was never portrayed as THAT powerful without the Phoenix...yes, she was powerful but not so powerful she could easily take down the major villains of the X-Men on her own...and a FAKE Magneto managed to kill her when she was full on Phoenix.

[ariwl1]

Her better nature got the better of her. She was trying to console a washed up old man and he zapped her out of spite. It's probably a good thing they did retcon it so quickly as it was a pretty punk move to end his legacy on. Even the real Magneto seemed incense that his imposter would be so brutal about it.

Although I do find it funny that Erik claimed resurrections were Jean Grey exclusive venture, as she's far from the only X-Man to cheat death once or twice.

[PwrdOn]

Ugh, Magneto is such a sanctimonious prick. Being a Holocaust survivor does not give you license to be a fascist prick yourself, I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

[grinningdemon]

Her better nature got the better of her. She was trying to console a washed up old man and he zapped her out of spite. It's probably a good thing they did retcon it so quickly as it was a pretty punk move to end his legacy on. Even the real Magneto seemed incense that his imposter would be so brutal about it.

Although I do find it funny that Erik claimed resurrections were Jean Grey exclusive venture, as she's far from the only X-Man to cheat death once or twice.

My main point there was that Jean is not anywhere near that powerful without the Phoenix...powerful but not THAT powerful.

The reason Jean has come to be known for her many deaths and resurrections in and out of the books (and not just by Magneto) is because she's almost become defined by them...it's because of the prominence of the story where she originally died at a time when major character death was a rare thing and resurrection even moreso.

[ariwl1]

Ugh, Magneto is such a sanctimonious prick. Being a Holocaust survivor does not give you license to be a fascist prick yourself, I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

According to the recent UA, he still hasn't learned the lesson apparently, though some may disagree.

The reason Jean has come to be known for her many deaths and resurrections in and out of the books (and not just by Magneto) is because she's almost become defined by them...it's because of the prominence of the story where she originally died at a time when major character death was a rare thing and resurrection even moreso.

Could be. But I tend to think it shows Marvel general inability to make a death story actually impactful.

[SerCo]

Xorneto killing Phoenix Jean just proves she is not as overpowered as many believe her to be. For all her vastly psionic strenght, she's still human. She's not invulnerable, if someone stabs her she will bleed. And if an enemy outsmarts her, she can lose a fight (like her fight against Magneto during Claremont's run). That's why I think Phoenix can work very well in a team, writers just need to adopt A LITTLE more creative approach.

[ZNOP]

Xorneto killing Phoenix Jean just proves she is not as overpowered as many believe her to be. For all her vastly psionic streght, she's still human. She's not invulnerable, if someone stabs her she will bleed. And if an enemy outsmarts her, she can lose a fight (like her fight against Magneto during Claremont's run). That's why I think Phoenix can work very well in a team, writers just need to adopt A LITTLE more creative approach.

You have a valid point there SerCo... However, the writer of that odious story arc just previously depicted Jean taking a trip into the sun with Wolverine; she's killed by Logan to spare her the pain of disintegration. Not only did the two of them survive the experience... Jean (reborn), during the voyage, on a molecular level, reconfigure a vehicle that should have been pico-cosmic debris long before it ever touched the outer corona of the Sun. Jean and Logan eventually returned back to Earth -- only for her to be killed by an measly EMP generated by a fraudulent, "Chinese" Magneto -- who subsequently gets his head cut off by Logan. End log!

[ariwl1]

In other words, Morrison's story has a few holes in it.

[Bart]

That was my pet peeve with Morrison killing Jean. She just came back from the immense electromagnetic radiation of the sun so that shouldn't have killed her. However, it could be a case that Jean was obviously aware and protected herself in the sun, while she let her guard down to offer some compassion to Xorneto.

Bringing us to Serco's point, that for all her godlike power...she still makes mistakes, and is human underneath it all.

OMG and All New X-Men 33 is scheduled for October 29th release which is sooo far away. I need my Jean fix!!!

[nx01a]

In other words, Morrison's story has a few holes in it.

Well perforated.

[joe90]

[Bart]

All New X-Men Jean minimates are out. I found pics of her with her alternate powered up head.