Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[ZNOP]

Wasn't it always viewed like that ? The PF made an exact copy of Jean and took off to the stars while the original was in statis ? Only differance between the 2 is that one has the PF and the other doesn't (yet).

And between 2 exactly identical clones, which one is the original ? o.O

Close, but, not quite correct... Jean didn't want to die and the Phoenix Force wanted to experience physical life... They (Jean Grey and The Phoenix Force) made a deal, but the deal came with a price which was not clearly specified at the time. My guess is that in order to save Jean the Phoenix gave her a portion of it's cosmic power in exchange for Jean's human conciseness, it placed Jean in the cocoon to heal and it when on to live Jean's life as Jean.

That reborn version of Jean wouldn't have go through the DFS events. Again doesn't really change anything compared to the original "cocoon" version. She still wouldn't be that "entity" that destroyed a star or whatever. (Or the PF would have to have created the egg after it destroyed the star but before being taken away by the Shi'ra. In that case the new Jean would have the memory of the events. But she still would be a new entity. A kind of "child" of the Phoenix)

Yet, teen Jean does have her adulter part's memories of said events and that's how I figure she is tapping in to this new power level -- she's tapping into something whether or not it the Phoenix Force has yet to be seen. In any event Jean mopped the floor with the majority of the Shi'ar including Gladitor single handily.

Not sure it worth the efforts compared to the original "cocoon" version :
The PF makes a copy of Jean and put the original in statis before going to the stars.
Later the original wake-up and goes her life without the guilt of destroying a civilisation. (Even if Jean feel responsible when she learns what her "copy" did. Because it still was her in most way that count)
Then later the PF comes back to Jean and merge with her. (Instead of knocking her on the head, putting her in another cocoon and making another clone

In term of what post-cocoon Jean experienced or the responsability that can be attached to her for the PFS events, its amount to the same.

That's how I saw it originally.... But, this it is quite a different scenario, one without all of the confusing multiple retcons.

[Narasinha]

Yet, teen Jean does have her adulter part's memories of said events and that's how I figure she is tapping in to this new power level -- she's tapping into something whether or not it the Phoenix Force has yet to be seen.

Err... no. Jeen has Beast's memories of those events. After bringing the O5 to the present he had a stroke. Jeen went in his mind to get info about how to cure him and put him in contact with 05 Hank (Tank ? . That's when Beast showed her all his memories of what happened to her.

Jeen was then shown more stuff about her past during her trial.

PS: I can continue to call O5 Beast "Tank" ? Pretty please!

[ZNOP]

Err... no. Jeen has Beast's memories of those events. After bringing the O5 to the present he had a stroke. Jeen went in his mind to get info about how to cure him and put him in contact with 05 Hank (Tank ? . That's when Beast showed her all his memories of what happened to her.

Jeen was then shown more stuff about her past during her trial.

PS: I can continue to call O5 Beast "Tank" ? Pretty please!

Apples and Oranges -- They all pertaining to her future self and are her now memories too.

[Narasinha]

Apples and Oranges -- They all pertaining to her future self and are her memories now.

Not at all. They are Beast memories of her. Not her future self memories of her. Big difference... It may help her understand what happenend. She may draw lessons and wisedom from them but its not her memories. That could help her understand a little her TP/TK by showing how Jean was using them. But that couldn't teach her how to use them, much less help her learn a skill that Jean never used.

Now, if Jeen could get a full memory download of Jean's memory, she would then be very similar to Jean but in a younger body. She would have all the knowledge/skills/personality and drama that goes with them.

[ZNOP]

Not at all. They are Beast memories of her. Not her future self memories of her. Big difference... It may help her understand what happenend. She may draw lessons and wisedom from them but its not her memories. That could help her understand a little her TP/TK by showing how Jean was using them. But that couldn't teach her how to use them, much less help her learn a skill that Jean never used.

Now, if Jeen could get a full memory download of Jean's memory, she would then be very similar to Jean but in a younger body. She would have all the knowledge/skills/personality and drama that goes with them.

I stand corrected... Nevertheless, I like the path she's on currently.

[ariwl1]

They have acknowledged that Beast's memories aren't complete. When Jean and Adult Scott had their brief talk when the 05 moved to the NXS Scott said Beast didn't know everything and she understood. For the sake of the story Bendis is telling it doesn't seem to matter much. Jean's primary focus/worry is that so far from what she sees there's no future where she's not dead or nuts.

[Narasinha]

I like the path she's on currently.

Me too (And I would enjoy it even more if I was sure the author know where he is going)

[ZNOP]

They have acknowledged that Beast's memories aren't complete. When Jean and Adult Scott had their brief talk when the 05 moved to the NXS Scott said Beast didn't know everything and she understood. For the sake of the story Bendis is telling it doesn't seem to matter much. Jean's primary focus/worry is that so far from what she sees there's no future where she's not dead or nuts.

We all know the future isn't set in stone so dying or going insane doesn't necessarily need be the case. Besides, doing either again would be a totally lame cop-out.

Me too (And I would enjoy it even more if I was sure the author know where he is going)

I can live with the mystery for a while... Can't send them back so I think the remaining adult counterparts should vanish without a trace.

[Narasinha]

so far from what she sees there's no future where she's not dead or nuts.

Isn't there something about zombie X-men or whatever ? So she could end-up dead and nuts ; ;

[ZNOP]

Isn't there something about zombie X-men or whatever ? So she could end-up dead and nuts ; ;

The franchise is tanking as it is... Beside, Maddie has the zombie thing covered. Methinks it best that the time displaced 05 simply grow up in the current present -- Teen Scott can stay in space with his dad for all I care.

[ariwl1]

Isn't there something about zombie X-men or whatever ? So she could end-up dead and nuts ; ;

Yep.

[dragonmp93]

I can't remember the last time the comics mentioned the cocoon thing, but if they wanted to do a slight retcon all they'd have to do is say the thing in Jamaica Bay was a Phoenix Egg like the one in Morrison's run. Whenever the Phoenix gets the inkling its days are numbered it creates an egg in a safe location to incubate until such time it's ready to come back. When the thing hatches out pops Jean, fully grown and like she never left.

Well, how i long i know, that egg is in the moon, probably under the watcher's possession; so wouldnt amusing that the egg was one of the things that was stolen from his vault in original sin ?................................................. .......

[ariwl1]

Well, how i long i know, that egg is in the moon, probably under the watcher's possession; so wouldnt amusing that the egg was one of the things that was stolen from his vault in original sin ?................................................. .......

Well if the thing still exists it was left pretty much right on his front doorstep. But wouldn't touching it go against his nebulous 'do not interfere' bylaws?



http://sachalefebvre.deviantart.com/...Grey-376364185

[dragonmp93]

Well if the thing still exists it was left pretty much right on his front doorstep. But wouldn't touching it go against his nebulous 'do not interfere' bylaws?



http://sachalefebvre.deviantart.com/...Grey-376364185

Well, the time lords, the doctor's race have (or had ?) a similiar rule, but is like neither the doctor or the watcher have ever cared about that.

[Narasinha]

Well if the thing still exists it was left pretty much right on his front doorstep. But wouldn't touching it go against his nebulous 'do not interfere' bylaws?

You could say he was "sitting on it" all this time...