Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[Narasinha]

and am thankful real Jean is coming back and this will all be swept under the rug finally.

I don't know if I would count too much on that... Not saying that they won't send back or kill the O5 or whatever. Just that it's far for being a given. People are interpreting the very few information we have in way that fit their wishes but there is just nothing conclusive, one way or another, yet.

[Narasinha]

And what a year for Jean that 2017 was. How did you all feel about everything that happened to Jean in 2017?

You mean everything that happened to Jeen? Sorry, I couldn't help myself after the previous discussion.

Well, frankly, except for the new of adult Jean's return, I don't think it was that exceptional. Yes, Jeen was leader of Blue but she was also pretty much leader of her team in ANXM. Love it or hate it but Bendis' Jeen had a way bigger impact than Bunn's. As for the solo, it's cool she got one but it was kinda disappointing: way too much emphasis on some not very attractive part of Jeen's personality. Yeah, Hopeless wanted to make a point about how Jeen's feel about her situation and the things happening to her but he didn't had to do it in every single issue. What was a little bothersome in the first 2 issues became really annoying after that.

Edit: Also, meh, the solo is ending just when it's starting to be really interesting ; ;

[yogaflame]

I don't know if I would count too much on that... Not saying that they won't send back or kill the O5 or whatever. Just that it's far for being a given. People are interpreting the very few information we have in way that fit their wishes but there is just nothing conclusive, one way or another, yet.

We'll see. Best case scenario for the O5ers is a trip through the multiverse, Exiles-style. I can't see them sticking around once Jean comes back fully. But who knows?

[ZNOP]

Yo, Yogaflame... On a side note, would you happen to know if Astonishing X-Men Vol 4 ever made it past issue #6?

[yogaflame]

As for the solo, it's cool she got one but it was kinda disappointing: way too much emphasis on some not very attractive part of Jeen's personality. Yeah, Hopeless wanted to make a point about how Jeen's feel about her situation and the things happening to her but he didn't had to do it in every single issue. What was a little bothersome in the first 2 issues became really annoying after that.

Edit: Also, meh, the solo is ending just when it's starting to be really interesting ; ;

I didn't like the solo either. Most of it was just formulaic team-ups, and yes, making Jeen out to be a bratty @sshole. Wait, I did like the part where all they all got destroyed by the Phoenix Force! That was the interesting part!

[yogaflame]

Yo, Yogaflame... On a side note, would you happen to know if Astonishing X-Men Vol 4 ever made it past issue #6?

Astonishing X-Men vol 4 (2017)? So far that is only at #6, yes, but I believe it has another 5 or 6 to go.

[Narasinha]

We'll see. Best case scenario for the O5ers is a trip through the multiverse, Exiles-style. I can't see them sticking around once Jean comes back fully. But who knows?

It will all be the result of a commercial decision anyway. If Marvel thinks that the O5, and specially Jeen, let them reach another category of readers, they will keep them.

It's not even really a question of total sales: Even if they sell less than some other books, they will keep them if they sell to a new/different category of readers because they hope that those readers will then buy other books too. (Ie. they are trying to repeat what they did with Ms Marvel for example)

[yogaflame]

Bendis had his pull, certainly there are people interested in his stuff, but I don't think the O5 or Jeen are inherently great sellers; Blue sells less than Gold(which is garbage) and even if it wasn't naturally coming to an end, its not like Jean Grey sold through the roof either.

[Narasinha]

I didn't like the solo either. Most of it was just formulaic team-ups, and yes, making Jeen out to be a bratty @sshole. Wait, I did like the part where all they all got destroyed by the Phoenix Force! That was the interesting part!

It's not that I didn't liked it but it wasn't that great and lacked depth with those "team-up of the month" stories. It was also not what I would have liked to read about.

There is some issues that I enjoyed, like the one with Wanda: I found it quite funny but that was mostly because of Ghost Jean's antics.

All the grumbling and pouting and self-pitying was really annoying. Especialy as Jeen was over that since the middle of Bendis' first volume. What a comparison with Lemire's Jeen who was pretty much adult.

[Narasinha]

Bendis had his pull, certainly there are people interested in his stuff, but I don't think the O5 or Jeen are inherently great sellers; Blue sells less than Gold(which is garbage) and even if it wasn't naturally coming to an end, its not like Jean Grey sold through the roof either.

Like I said, it's not about absolute sale: Marvel (and the comics industry) need new readers and one way is to reach people outside of their "traditional" target audience. A book like Ms Marvel is supposed to be more popular with younger female readers than most of their other books. Even if it sell less, it's not important because for them it's an "appeal product": It let them reach new customers that they hope will then start reading other books too.

[yogaflame]

Like I said, it's not about absolute sale: Marvel (and the comics industry) need new readers and one way is to reach people outside of their "traditional" target audience. A book like Ms Marvel is supposed to be more popular with younger female readers than most of their other books. Even if it sell less, it's not important because for them it's an "appeal product": It let them reach new customers that they hope will then start reading other books too.

That's some impressive mental gymnastics. Sales matter, at the end of the day. I won't deny that corporations will push pet projects just to get a certain message across, but there are limitations to such displays. In a sinking market they will reformulate when the numbers drop low enough (check out the slew of recent cancellations, including Ice-man and Gen X).

[Narasinha]

That's some impressive mental gymnastics.

That's pretty much common commercial practice. -shrug-

Sales matter, at the end of the day. I won't deny that corporations will push pet projects just to get a certain message across, but there are limitations to such displays. In a sinking market they will reformulate when the numbers drop low enough

Only if they actually lose money producing it. And even then, there is many companies that produce things at a lose if they think it's benifical to the rest of their business and that they have more to gain by continuing to produce it.

Anyway, it's not because that Marvel think they can get new readers with such book that they will. I didn't claimed that the O5 are or aren't a success. Only Marvel really knows if it's worth for them to publish a book based on such character or not. All I am saying is that you can't just compare the actual sales of 2 books to know if it's worth for them to publish both. There is other factors. (And we don't even know the actual sales: no information about digital, no information about international sales,...)

(check out the slew of recent cancellations, including Ice-man and Gen X).

Cancellation? We knew they were limited series with 12 or so issue. Like Jean Grey. In fact, 1-2 years ago, Marvel issued press-release saying that were moving to TV season model. There wasn't any "ongoing" anymore: Authors had to plan their stories based on 1 season (of 12 issues or so) which may or may not get renewed for a new season.

Iceman, Jean Grey,... weren't cancelled because of sale. They were planned as a 1 season run. If the sale were really too bad, they will drop them else they may do a new "season" sooner or later. Just look at Storm solo: it didn't sold any better. It stoped at the end of the "season" (as planned). And now they announced they will do a new "season".

[ZNOP]

Astonishing X-Men vol 4 (2017)? So far that is only at #6, yes, but I believe it has another 5 or 6 to go.

Thanks, I thought I was bugging out...

[PrezValentine]

Astonishing X-Men vol 4 (2017)? So far that is only at #6, yes, but I believe it has another 5 or 6 to go.

More like 10. Soule already said A Man Named X is the second act. There'll be a third act to close the series later this year, so it'll probably get to issue #15 or further.

[Wiccan]

That's pretty much common commercial practice. -shrug-



Only if they actually lose money producing it. And even then, there is many companies that produce things at a lose if they think it's benifical to the rest of their business and that they have more to gain by continuing to produce it.

Anyway, it's not because that Marvel think they can get new readers with such book that they will. I didn't claimed that the O5 are or aren't a success. Only Marvel really knows if it's worth for them to publish a book based on such character or not. All I am saying is that you can't just compare the actual sales of 2 books to know if it's worth for them to publish both. There is other factors. (And we don't even know the actual sales: no information about digital, no information about international sales,...)



Cancellation? We knew they were limited series with 12 or so issue. Like Jean Grey. In fact, 1-2 years ago, Marvel issued press-release saying that were moving to TV season model. There wasn't any "ongoing" anymore: Authors had to plan their stories based on 1 season (of 12 issues or so) which may or may not get renewed for a new season.

Iceman, Jean Grey,... weren't cancelled because of sale. They were planned as a 1 season run. If the sale were really too bad, they will drop them else they may do a new "season" sooner or later. Just look at Storm solo: it didn't sold any better. It stoped at the end of the "season" (as planned). And now they announced they will do a new "season".

I don't think that's exactly how everything works right now. Like, yeah, 12 is a basic number that a series may last, but Marvel now has the whole legacy numbering thing, so runs aren't quite perfectly separated between seasons like they could be before. Cable's series for example has like 3 writers in about 10 issues. The first two did like a 4 issues arc each or something like that. So it's not like there was already a whole 12 issues planned by one writer. The second one actually said he left the book because Marvel gave him another one, so it's not like an inconvienece happened and forced them to do that. Besides that, if the book has really great sales, it's gonna keep going regardless.