Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[Gray Lensman]

Which creates the obvious point of contention.

Honestly, Jean could not have come up with a better torture for Emma if she tried. She set her up in the situation that Emma thought she wanted, except that as a telepath, she would know that Scott would never love her the same way he loved Jean, no matter how much he tried, and she would never have the respect of the faculty because of her status as a "homewrecker". You can make a case that Emma and Scott's entire relationship was Jean's revenge for Emma sleeping with Scott behind her back.

Ouch. That's cold. And since doing it would be something done in the heat of the moment, I could see Jean actually doing it. I can't see her plotting that out with even a hour or two to think about it, but in a moment of anger before death...well, yes.

[TheCape]

Which creates the obvious point of contention.

Honestly, Jean could not have come up with a better torture for Emma if she tried. She set her up in the situation that Emma thought she wanted, except that as a telepath, she would know that Scott would never love her the same way he loved Jean, no matter how much he tried, and she would never have the respect of the faculty because of her status as a "homewrecker". You can make a case that Emma and Scott's entire relationship was Jean's revenge for Emma sleeping with Scott behind her back.

Cold and harsh, but deserved to be honest.

[PsychoEFrost]

Cold and harsh, but deserved to be honest.

I would say it's a severe case of disproportionate punishment, and it didn't leave Scott in the best spot either since he always felt bad about not feeling more loyal to Emma.

[spirit2011]

I would say it's a severe case of disproportionate punishment, and it didn't leave Scott in the best spot either since he always felt bad about not feeling more loyal to Emma.

Emma had always the option to not date Scott, but she did. A disfunctional relationship sinve the beggining

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

because Gambit is literally the best
But yeah, while I see your point, the writers will inevitably have Jean taken out of the fight by somebody far below her pay grade, and then you’ll want a backup telepath. I personally think Xavier’s heyday has come and gone, but evidently the writers have use for him.

[TheCape]

I would say it's a severe case of disproportionate punishment, and it didn't leave Scott in the best spot either since he always felt bad about not feeling more loyal to Emma.

To be honest, i was never able muster much simpathy for Emma in that whole situation, Scott? yes, didn't like it but i could get it, Emma? i don't hate her or anything like that and i certanly wouldn't have gone to that extreme (and for a moral standpoint, i think that Jean shoulnd't have done that), but i could never bring myself to pity her.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

Think of it like creating a party - if there was a character who had Gambit's powers and skills, only better, and then had other powers in addition - then why would Gambit be in a comic at all?

because Gambit is literally the best
But yeah, while I see your point, the writers will inevitably have Jean taken out of the fight by somebody far below her pay grade, and then you’ll want a backup telepath. I personally think Xavier’s heyday has come and gone, but evidently the writers have use for him.

Forgot to quote that.

[Celestialbodies]

The reason Jean's death stuck for so long, in my opinion, is that it was such an iconic moment. That death in New X-men 150 was the culmination of Grant Morrison's run. It carried a heavy impact that lasted well beyond Morrison's final issue.

Compare that to Cyclops' death. It happened off-panel. We didn't even know the details until a year later. On top of that, his death had been unspectacular to say the least. He just investigates an incident and dies because of exposure to a gas. That's not the least bit iconic. Plus, it wasn't exactly celebrated or praised by the bulk of the fan base. I do remember many Jean Grey fans who believed that she should stay dead because of how well done her death was handled. There were no such fans expressing that intent for Cyclops.

Consider, on top of that, both Banner and Black Widow were killed after Cyclops died. Then, they came back in less than a year. Keep in mind, both characters had a funeral for them, complete with a burial. Cyclops did too. And still, they came back in short order. To keep Cyclops alive after a retcon like that just doesn't make sense, especially if O5 Cyclops ends up going back to the past.

I'm not saying Marvel should rush his return, but I think there's no justification for keeping him dead, especially when other major characters have died and come back within the same time frame.

Loved, Morrison's run but her death never made sense even in the context of the story the PF eats suns, had died and been reborn in a sun. But is able to be killed by a planetary EMP? Even with HCT as context, it always read as Morrison killing Jean off so Scott could "finally" be happy with someone who HE deserved. The writers and editors around and up until 2012, only cemented that sentiment by outright stating Jean was a high school romance that held Scott back from being the awesome man he'd become under Emma's proper guidance. Many also outright stated she shouldn't have been brought back after the DPS, and that she wasn't needed back as they and Scott had Emma.

What's worse imho about NXM is Grant did more with Jean than most had done in a decade at that point, but he saw her as all that was wrong with the X-men moving forward. He either couldn't or didn't see how much ripe potential that Jean was brimming with at that point. If any two individuals should have been killed off at the end of NXM in some faux symbolic gesture then Magneto killing Xavier as he knelt to help a injured friend might have been a bit more memorable.

Ouch. That's cold. And since doing it would be something done in the heat of the moment, I could see Jean actually doing it. I can't see her plotting that out with even a hour or two to think about it, but in a moment of anger before death...well, yes.

I don't know this is also the same woman who without the breathe of death on her neck, willingly rescued Emma in Xavier's mind when she mocked Jean only panels before, and pieced her back together telling her "Scott needs you".....come to think of it maybe it was an elaborate ploy from the beginning to free herself from the constraints of marriage and the responsibilities of being an X-man.

[spirit2011]

Loved, Morrison's run but her death never made sense even in the context of the story the PF eats suns, had died and been reborn in a sun. But is able to be killed by a planetary EMP? Even with HCT as context, it always read as Morrison killing Jean off so Scott could "finally" be happy with someone who HE deserved. The writers and editors around and up until 2012, only cemented that sentiment by outright stating Jean was a high school romance that held Scott back from being the awesome man he'd become under Emma's proper guidance. Many also outright stated she shouldn't have been brought back after the DPS, and that she wasn't needed back as they and Scott had Emma.

What's worse imho about NXM is Grant did more with Jean than most had done in a decade at that point, but he saw her as all that was wrong with the X-men moving forward. He either couldn't or didn't see how much ripe potential that Jean was brimming with at that point. If any two individuals should have been killed off at the end of NXM in some faux symbolic gesture then Magneto killing Xavier as he knelt to help a injured friend might have been a bit more memorable.

Morrison was very cynical on his new x-men run. It really bleed out to Scott and Jean in a very ugly way

I don't know this is also the same woman who without the breathe of death on her neck, willingly rescued Emma in Xavier's mind when she mocked Jean only panels before, and pieced her back together telling her "Scott needs you".....come to think of it maybe it was an elaborate ploy from the beginning to free herself from the constraints of marriage and the responsibilities of being an X-man.

That isnt Jean. Even after all the crap Scott threw on her, she still considers him as her husband

[phoenixzero23]

I was debating with a guy that was saying that jean was boring for being a good girl who does no wrong. It leave thinking, i couldn't really remember something bad
What's the worst thing Jean has ever done? the most evil act Jean has commited?
(please nothing about love triangles, cyclops or wolverine)

[Celestialbodies]

I was debating with a guy that was saying that jean was boring for being a good girl who does no wrong. It leave thinking, i couldn't really remember something bad
What's the worst thing Jean has ever done? the most evil act Jean has commited?
(please nothing about love triangles, cyclops or wolverine)

She's killed like three people, wiped Frenzy's mind to join the X-men, and according to Xavier in a conversation with Danger, during the "Xavier is a Jerk" years, she mentioned how most if not all the X-men didn't know who he really was, he replied "Jean knew. Knew and understood!".

Just off the top of my head.

But while she does carry the title of a goody goody she's never been written as such, it's just with her last death she was idealized in a lot of ways unfortunately with that comes barbs like "Sacred Cow", and "The Great Saint.."

[TheCape]

She's killed like three people, wiped Frenzy's mind to join the X-men, and according to Xavier in a conversation with Danger, during the "Xavier is a Jerk" years, she mentioned how most if not all the X-men didn't know who he really was, he replied "Jean knew. Knew and understood!".

Just off the top of my head.

But while she does carry the title of a goody goody she's never been written as such, it's just with her last death she was idealized in a lot of ways unfortunately with that comes barbs like "Sacred Cow", and "The Great Saint.."

She suffered the Gwen Stacy syndrome after her death.

[phoenixzero23]

She's killed like three people

What??
I don't remember she killing anyone (aside of the broccoli people but that was the phoenix) do you have scans or something?
i have very bad memory.

[Peanutsinspace]

That isnt Jean. Even after all the crap Scott threw on her, she still considers him as her husband

Forgiveness has always been a defining trait of Jean's along with her temper. It's exactly like her to forgive people.

[Celestialbodies]

What??
I don't remember she killing anyone (aside of the broccoli people but that was the phoenix) do you have scans or something?
i have very bad memory.

Not readily but search "Jean Grey kills Meme, Prism, Psynapse the Dark Rider". Should be on Google search.

She suffered the Gwen Stacy syndrome after her death.

Very true.