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  1. #27421
    Incredible Member ButterRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    There was a small amount of it back in the day, but it was all soap opera drama until the "moment" happened.

    The issue is that when two guys fight, they beat the crap out of each other, shake hands, and grab some beers. When two girls fight, it looks like freaking armageddon.

    My old geometry teacher used to teach at a pretty bad inner city school. His rule for guys fighting was wait five minutes, then break it up. His rule for girls fighting was to go the office and call the police. Girl A didn't like Girl B looking at her boyfriend, so Girl A teamed up with Girls C, D, E, and held B to the ground, while A affixed a razor blade to her palm, and slapped the **** out of B's stomach and face.
    I mean, I wish the Emma and Jean rivalry included large plots about their different ideals on how to lead mutants. Grant Morrison touched upon it a little during the "top class breeding" moment, but we haven't seen large events like Professor X vs Magneto's and Cyclops vs Wolverine's (e.g. Schism) that are about Emma and Jean's ideals.

    Now would be the perfect time to tell that story because they're both alive, Jean is leading her own team, and Wolverine and Cyclops are dead!

  2. #27422
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    I wish they could treat the Emma and Jean rivalry like the Cyclops vs Wolverine and the Magneto vs Professor X rivalry. There's SO much potential.
    That could be interesting in talented hands, but it would mostly be lame catfight stuff about some dude.

    I think most of what's been said about that has been said. Hopeless actually left that where it ought to be pretty well, imo. Jean recognized her "love story" and now there's the opportunity to go into new territory.

    But I'm a dude who doesn't want to see the Wolverine/Petclops rivalry again either. That's almost as bad as Wolverine and Sabretooth battling...how can they still be writing that the same way after all this time?

    We could get so much story if they would, for the love of Phoenix, just mix character dynamics/interactions up every once in a while.

    Like...what if Emma got over Jean for once? Lol

    What if they didn't do Jott this time?

    Let them evolve.

  3. #27423
    Incredible Member Portsian's Avatar
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    That preview.

    WOW.

    A few questions Cassandra hates mutants.... but she is Charles’s twin. What exactly is she, if not a mutant.

    Can we mention the art.... again WOW.

    Who is the boy Cassandrabwas talking to!?

    Am loving how all of this is being set up.

    If Cassandra is Jeans equivalent of Charles / Eric, who do you want to see as the next protagonist? I get feeling this re Introduction of Jean is gonna be BIG, but when you peak early, where do you go next? Maybe future stores will focus on other team members, Jeans introduction needed to be big and worthy of her, so far i yhink they have succeeded.

  4. #27424
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    You have all, the right to not like jean/scott. Marvel has put plenty of reasons for not liking it. But you're making drama for something that isn't happening and also painting it much worse than it was. The relationship isn't just killing Jean.
    Jean dying is pretty much all the relationship is. Well, that and alternate reality kids.

    I'd gladly have no more of the woman-in-a-refrigerator or time travel baby stuff in favor of things that are actually interesting and belong in a post-1960s world.

  5. #27425
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    That could be interesting in talented hands, but it would mostly be lame catfight stuff about some dude.

    I think most of what's been said about that has been said. Hopeless actually left that where it ought to be pretty well, imo. Jean recognized her "love story" and now there's the opportunity to go into new territory.

    But I'm a dude who doesn't want to see the Wolverine/Petclops rivalry again either. That's almost as bad as Wolverine and Sabretooth battling...how can they still be writing that the same way after all this time?

    We could get so much story if they would, for the love of Phoenix, just mix character dynamics/interactions up every once in a while.

    Like...what if Emma got over Jean for once? Lol

    What if they didn't do Jott this time?

    Let them evolve.
    The franchise needs nee stories and dinamics.

    I dont think Emma/jean could be like Wolverine/Cyclops . complete diffetent dinamics

  6. #27426
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    Did anyone see the Cyclops tease? Either adult Cyclops is coming back or someone is taking over as "Cyclops".

    https://twitter.com/cbcebulski/statu...544796162?s=21

    If they bring back Cyclops, they're totally going to put him and Jean back together. (Phoenix Resurrection and the X-Men Red Annual basically set the stage). Say goodbye to Jean leading X-Men Red. And with Wolverine back, they're really gonna run out of space for Jean as leader.

    Both Cyclops and Wolverine take up so much space in the x-books!

    Well, it was nice that Jean got to lead her own book for a little bit!
    Cyclops's reputation has been damaged a lot. I don't think he'll come back soon, and when he is back I do not think he will be the team leader. Having him come back and Jean step down as leader cannot be done in the era of MeToo. An era in which people call out sexism and misogyny and an era in which Disney is pushing strong female characters.

    Notice how X-Men: Red also developed Jean's relationship with other women, including her daughter Rachel and her almost stepdaughters Laura and Gabby.

  7. #27427
    Astonishing Member 5cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    Did anyone see the Cyclops tease? Either adult Cyclops is coming back or someone is taking over as "Cyclops".

    https://twitter.com/cbcebulski/statu...544796162?s=21
    It could just be a promo image for Extermination and the rest of the O5 will get one too. Cyclop just got his revealed first. Wondering what line they will use for Jean’s.
    First X-Lady

  8. #27428

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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    Did anyone see the Cyclops tease? Either adult Cyclops is coming back or someone is taking over as "Cyclops".

    https://twitter.com/cbcebulski/statu...544796162?s=21

    If they bring back Cyclops, they're totally going to put him and Jean back together. (Phoenix Resurrection and the X-Men Red Annual basically set the stage). Say goodbye to Jean leading X-Men Red. And with Wolverine back, they're really gonna run out of space for Jean as leader.

    Both Cyclops and Wolverine take up so much space in the x-books!

    Well, it was nice that Jean got to lead her own book for a little bit!
    I saw this too. It got me even more excited to Extermination. It's hard to know what it implies. It hints that perhaps this story will set up Cyclops' return. I doubt Marvel is going to keep him dead for long. They didn't keep Bruce Banner or Black Widow dead for very long so I don't think they have any excuses with Cyclops. If they really want to get the X-men back to basics, they can't do that without Cyclops. What this means for him and Jean, though, depends on what this ends up doing to the timeline. They've been getting closer in the pages of X-men Blue. I have a feeling this story will lead to some sort of culmination of all the teenage melodrama. I hope that does something positive with it because so far, there has been too much tragedy surrounding it. I think the final pages of X-men Red Annual #1 showed just how much Jean wants her husband to be by her side as she works towards a new future. I hope Cyclops gets a chance to join that effort at some point, but only time will tell.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


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  9. #27429
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    Did anyone see the Cyclops tease? Either adult Cyclops is coming back or someone is taking over as "Cyclops".

    https://twitter.com/cbcebulski/statu...544796162?s=21

    If they bring back Cyclops, they're totally going to put him and Jean back together. (Phoenix Resurrection and the X-Men Red Annual basically set the stage). Say goodbye to Jean leading X-Men Red. And with Wolverine back, they're really gonna run out of space for Jean as leader.

    Both Cyclops and Wolverine take up so much space in the x-books!

    Well, it was nice that Jean got to lead her own book for a little bit!
    I doubt Adult Scott is coming back. That's probably a picture of Teen Scott grown up. And even if it was Adult Scott, I don't think that would be an issue.

    1) Scott is not well-liked by the X-Men. Jean is. The X-Men will pick Jean over Scott any day of the week.

    2) It would be the stupidest thing for Marvel to put Scott and Jean back together. It doesn't respect continuity. It's been repeated several times that Jean was a teenage puppy love mistake and Emma was the love of Scott's life. Jean is still the woman that Scott fell out of love with and Scott is not the same man that Jean fell in love with. It doesn't make sense in-story. It also doesn't make sense out-of-story for Marvel as a business. Fans don't want Jott. They want Scemma. From a psychological perspective, that makes sense because of the way our brains internalize and remember events. People judge experiences according to their "peak" (most intense point) and end (Kahneman/Tsversky). Also, the further the "peak" point is in the past, the more the end will matter. If the event has a negative peak and end, then no matter if the majority of the experience was moderately positive, people will still consider it a bad experience. Jott's "peak" was also its end - the affair, her death and that vomit-inducing Scemma kiss over her grave - and it was extremely negative for the couple. On the other hand, Scemma ended with a whimper, not a bang with an acknowledgement of Phoenixclops that Emma was everything he needed while Jean was not. The end was therefore not very memorable and actually slightly positive. Its peak was probably Whedon's Astonishing so fans generally have a positive view of the pairing. So in conclusion, it makes sense for Marvel to have Scott back with Emma rather than Jean.

    Wolverine won't be an issue. He'd be more than happy to have Jean in a leadership position.

    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    I mean, I wish the Emma and Jean rivalry included large plots about their different ideals on how to lead mutants. Grant Morrison touched upon it a little during the "top class breeding" moment, but we haven't seen large events like Professor X vs Magneto's and Cyclops vs Wolverine's (e.g. Schism) that are about Emma and Jean's ideals.
    Emma doesn't have ideals. She's fighting for Cyclops' ideals and is still fighting for Cyclops' ideals. They were never hers. She wanted to leave during Schism but stayed because she loved Scott. She wanted to leave again after busting out of prison but had nowhere to go and was still in love with Scott. Secondly, the Emma/Jean rivalry has never been about different ideals. It's always been about Emma's Jean Grey issues/inferiority complex. Jean wouldn't think twice about Emma if she hadn't been a homewrecker for shits and giggles.
    Last edited by jollygoldfish; 07-14-2018 at 09:54 AM.

  10. #27430
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollygoldfish View Post
    I doubt Adult Scott is coming back. That's probably a picture of Teen Scott grown up. And even if it was Adult Scott, I don't think that would be an issue.

    1) Scott is not well-liked by the X-Men. Jean is. The X-Men will pick Jean over Scott any day of the week.

    2) It would be the stupidest thing for Marvel to put Scott and Jean back together. It doesn't respect continuity. It's been repeated several times that Jean was a teenage puppy love mistake and Emma was the love of Scott's life. Jean is still the woman that Scott fell out of love with and Scott is not the same man that Jean fell in love with. It doesn't make sense in-story. It also doesn't make sense out-of-story for Marvel as a business. Fans don't want Jott. They want Scemma. From a psychological perspective, that makes sense because of the way our brains internalize and remember events. People judge experiences according to their "peak" (most intense point) and end (Kahneman/Tsversky). Also, the further the "peak" point is in the past, the more the end will matter. If the event has a negative peak and end, then no matter if the majority of the experience was moderately positive, people will still consider it a bad experience. Jott's "peak" was also its end - the affair, her death and that vomit-inducing Scemma kiss over her grave - and it was extremely negative for the couple. On the other hand, Scemma ended with a whimper, not a bang with an acknowledgement of Phoenixclops that Emma was everything he needed while Jean was not. The end was therefore not very memorable and actually slightly positive. Its peak was probably Whedon's Astonishing so fans generally have a positive view of the pairing. So in conclusion, it makes sense for Marvel to have Scott back with Emma rather than Jean.

    Wolverine won't be an issue. He'd be more than happy to have Jean in a leadership position.



    Emma doesn't have ideals. She's fighting for Cyclops' ideals and is still fighting for Cyclops' ideals. They were never hers. She wanted to leave during Schism but stayed because she loved Scott. She wanted to leave again after busting out of prison but had nowhere to go and was still in love with Scott. Secondly, the Emma/Jean rivalry has never been about different ideals. It's always been about Emma's Jean Grey issues/inferiority complex. Jean wouldn't think twice about Emma if she hadn't been a homewrecker for shits and giggles.
    Yup, i never saw the Emma/Jean rivalry as something idealistic or complex. It was purely personal and mostly on emma's side i never saw jean even thinking about it, unlike emma who lived with a constant fear.

    I feel like the era of cyclops barking orders is over and most xmen will follow jean (including cyclops, who since all new xmen gave up on leadership an has been following jeen just fine)

  11. #27431
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Who should be Jean's rival ? Does she need one?

  12. #27432
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Yup, i never saw the Emma/Jean rivalry as something idealistic or complex. It was purely personal and mostly on emma's side i never saw jean even thinking about it, unlike emma who lived with a constant fear.

    I feel like the era of cyclops barking orders is over and most xmen will follow jean (including cyclops, who since all new xmen gave up on leadership an has been following jeen just fine)
    those are two different characters though. Teen Cyclops was a kid who never developed into the leader that his older self eventually became. Adult Scott is defined by that role. I dont see why he and Jean both cant be leaders. Aside from a few instances, there has generally been multiple team with multiple leaders since the original blue/gold era of the early 90s.

  13. #27433
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Who should be Jean's rival ? Does she need one?
    Cassie's doing pretty well in that role.

    Besides, there are other types of adversarial relationships to be had. For instance, I've wanted to see the post-Aaron interpretation of Quire bugging Jean for the longest time.

  14. #27434
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    Cassie's doing pretty well in that role.

    Besides, there are other types of adversarial relationships to be had. For instance, I've wanted to see the post-Aaron interpretation of Quire bugging Jean for the longest time.
    True. Its too bad Blue is ending bc I wanted Polaris to become Jean's rival. There could have been good setup to have them inherit Xavier and Magneto's ideologies and clash on how to lead mutantkind

  15. #27435
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollygoldfish View Post
    I doubt Adult Scott is coming back. That's probably a picture of Teen Scott grown up. And even if it was Adult Scott, I don't think that would be an issue.

    1) Scott is not well-liked by the X-Men. Jean is. The X-Men will pick Jean over Scott any day of the week.

    2) It would be the stupidest thing for Marvel to put Scott and Jean back together. It doesn't respect continuity. It's been repeated several times that Jean was a teenage puppy love mistake and Emma was the love of Scott's life. Jean is still the woman that Scott fell out of love with and Scott is not the same man that Jean fell in love with. It doesn't make sense in-story. It also doesn't make sense out-of-story for Marvel as a business. Fans don't want Jott. They want Scemma. From a psychological perspective, that makes sense because of the way our brains internalize and remember events. People judge experiences according to their "peak" (most intense point) and end (Kahneman/Tsversky). Also, the further the "peak" point is in the past, the more the end will matter. If the event has a negative peak and end, then no matter if the majority of the experience was moderately positive, people will still consider it a bad experience. Jott's "peak" was also its end - the affair, her death and that vomit-inducing Scemma kiss over her grave - and it was extremely negative for the couple. On the other hand, Scemma ended with a whimper, not a bang with an acknowledgement of Phoenixclops that Emma was everything he needed while Jean was not. The end was therefore not very memorable and actually slightly positive. Its peak was probably Whedon's Astonishing so fans generally have a positive view of the pairing. So in conclusion, it makes sense for Marvel to have Scott back with Emma rather than Jean.

    Wolverine won't be an issue. He'd be more than happy to have Jean in a leadership position.



    Emma doesn't have ideals. She's fighting for Cyclops' ideals and is still fighting for Cyclops' ideals. They were never hers. She wanted to leave during Schism but stayed because she loved Scott. She wanted to leave again after busting out of prison but had nowhere to go and was still in love with Scott. Secondly, the Emma/Jean rivalry has never been about different ideals. It's always been about Emma's Jean Grey issues/inferiority complex. Jean wouldn't think twice about Emma if she hadn't been a homewrecker for shits and giggles.
    Agree with all this.

    Especially the bold. Wolverine has never felt emasculated or threatened by Jean's potential. Maybe slightly intimidated in a way he doesn't mind lol

    Heck he made her the symbol of the X-Men when he was deciding things.

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