Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[Portsian]

I doubt Adult Scott is coming back. That's probably a picture of Teen Scott grown up. And even if it was Adult Scott, I don't think that would be an issue.

1) Scott is not well-liked by the X-Men. Jean is. The X-Men will pick Jean over Scott any day of the week.

2) It would be the stupidest thing for Marvel to put Scott and Jean back together. It doesn't respect continuity. It's been repeated several times that Jean was a teenage puppy love mistake and Emma was the love of Scott's life. Jean is still the woman that Scott fell out of love with and Scott is not the same man that Jean fell in love with. It doesn't make sense in-story. It also doesn't make sense out-of-story for Marvel as a business. Fans don't want Jott. They want Scemma. From a psychological perspective, that makes sense because of the way our brains internalize and remember events. People judge experiences according to their "peak" (most intense point) and end (Kahneman/Tsversky). Also, the further the "peak" point is in the past, the more the end will matter. If the event has a negative peak and end, then no matter if the majority of the experience was moderately positive, people will still consider it a bad experience. Jott's "peak" was also its end - the affair, her death and that vomit-inducing Scemma kiss over her grave - and it was extremely negative for the couple. On the other hand, Scemma ended with a whimper, not a bang with an acknowledgement of Phoenixclops that Emma was everything he needed while Jean was not. The end was therefore not very memorable and actually slightly positive. Its peak was probably Whedon's Astonishing so fans generally have a positive view of the pairing. So in conclusion, it makes sense for Marvel to have Scott back with Emma rather than Jean.

Wolverine won't be an issue. He'd be more than happy to have Jean in a leadership position.



Emma doesn't have ideals. She's fighting for Cyclops' ideals and is still fighting for Cyclops' ideals. They were never hers. She wanted to leave during Schism but stayed because she loved Scott. She wanted to leave again after busting out of prison but had nowhere to go and was still in love with Scott. Secondly, the Emma/Jean rivalry has never been about different ideals. It's always been about Emma's Jean Grey issues/inferiority complex. Jean wouldn't think twice about Emma if she hadn't been a homewrecker for shits and giggles.

Fans want Scemma? Really?
I am huge fan, and no I dont. I dontbwant Jott any more either. Can weclook towards the future guys?

And I totally disagree with your interpretation of Jean and Scotts relationship, thats its only abour her dying, or Scott falling out of love with her.

We can all see what we want to in the “cannon” of it all. But “fans want.....” comments just are so pointless. You dint soeak for ne at all.

[Disciple of Redd]

I know how you feel about Jott and why you "prefer" Scemma, but that doesn't change the fact that all the shit they said to push that relationship on expense of Jean/Jott was bullshit. Don't forget that "Jean should have stayed forever dead after DPS" was one of the biggest arguments on the Scemma agenda.

You are correct in that editorial and the comics themselves dissed Jean Grey while focusing on Scemma. All the more reason not to go back on that now just because some fans want to see Scott as a harem character. Let him have Emma and be done with it. Emma is more than enough.

There are far more interesting things (not to mention people lol) that Jean could be doing besides taking over Emma's role as the person who reminds folks how great her man is while being driven by his identity.

[spirit2011]

I dont like Scemma,but If I had to choose I would pick it over Jott.
because I care about Jean, she is doing well on her own

[jollygoldfish]

those are two different characters though. Teen Cyclops was a kid who never developed into the leader that his older self eventually became. Adult Scott is defined by that role. I dont see why he and Jean both cant be leaders. Aside from a few instances, there has generally been multiple team with multiple leaders since the original blue/gold era of the early 90s.

Adult Scott would need to find X-men willing to be lead by him now. That narrows the pool considerably - Emma, Magik, Magneto, maybe Namor as he would do it for Emma.

True. Its too bad Blue is ending bc I wanted Polaris to become Jean's rival. There could have been good setup to have them inherit Xavier and Magneto's ideologies and clash on how to lead mutantkind

Aren't Jean and Polaris very good friends? They were both part of the original X-woman trinity (Jean/Storm/Polaris) and if your friend knows you well enough to get you your stripper ideal for your bachelorette party, that friendship is a keeper. I haven't been following Polaris or Blue to comment but that would be shame for their friendship.

Wolverine has never felt emasculated or threatened by Jean's potential. Maybe slightly intimidated in a way he doesn't mind lol

Heck he made her the symbol of the X-Men when he was deciding things.

It's quite sad for Jean when you think about it. The man she chose dishonored her in life and the one she didn't honored her in death.

I'm sorry, but where has this been stated? Everything I've ever read was that Emma constantly was living in Jean's shadow, that Jean will always be the great love of Scott's life.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Also, in House of M when everyone got their heart's desire, Scott and Emma were married. No sign of Jean.

I mean look at what a resurrected Scott told Jean, about being sorry and that he thought of her every single day.

I don't think the Scott in Phoenix Resurrection was really Scott but a construct of the PF. If it is him, that's even worse. It makes him really sound like a liar.

To Maddie: I love you for you, Maddie. Not because you look exactly like my girlfriend who died 6 months ago.
To Jean: *Insert wedding vows*
To Emma: I chose you.
Back to Jean: I thought about you everyday.

Not a great track record...

Omg. I wanna vomit. Using "It doesn't respect continuity" against Jott and then mentioning all the bullshit statements of "Jean was just a teenage love mistake" when those are what quite LITERALLY don't respect continuity if you remember that in-story, Jean and Scott have been married for 12 YEARS. They have spent 12 years on the future raising Cable. That's more then Scemma has lasted irl, which in the Marvel universe would be like... 3 years at most.

Adult Scott is no longer the man that was happy raising Cable with boring Jean as a family in her ugly utilitarian clothes.

Also speak for yourself, I don't ever want to see Scemma together again.

Not here on CBR. Jean and Scott's thread it's on page 147 while Scemma didn't pass the 10's IIRC. And while CBR is not really an accurate representation of the whole fandom... There's a whole generation of people who grew up seeing Scott and Jean on the '90s cartoon. Or on X-Men Evolution. And now there's gonna be the Dark Phoenix movie where their relationship will have major focus. Jott is so much bigger than the edgy '00s era of Marvel that is long gone...

But “fans want.....” comments just are so pointless. You dint soeak for ne at all.

I'm speaking generally about X-men fans who follow and read the comics, the ones who are willing to buy into the comics subscription business model which is a small subset of the video game/movie/TV audience. There are always exceptions. I can think of a few reasons why there may be Jott fans around - they didn't read Morrison or treat it like fanfiction rather than an important part of continuity so the "end" was not extremely negative, or the "peak" of their Jott experience was DPS or the wedding or raising Cable and it left a particularly strong impression which was strong enough to overcome the "end" effect even with recency bias. But I don't think either applies to the majority of X-book comics readers.

On Scemma, Marvel spent 14 years pushing that pairing and made them front and center of the X-books. There's suvivorship bias in that the people who are still buying the comics are generally the ones who like reading Scemma. If you go looking through tumblr, twitter, other comics forums, blogs, v-logs, fanart and other fansites on the web, you'll see that the Scemma stuff gets a lot more likes/interest than other posts.

To be fair, the comics division at Marvel may be a different animal in that they stated several years ago that they saw it as R&D for their other more lucrative revenue streams like movies and TV. Therefore, rather than maximize profit, they are using comics as a way to experiment with different stories and see what stories they can use on the big screen.

You are correct in that editorial and the comics themselves dissed Jean Grey while focusing on Scemma. All the more reason not to go back on that now just because some fans want to see Scott as a harem character. Let him have Emma and be done with it. Emma is more than enough.

There are far more interesting things (not to mention people lol) that Jean could be doing besides taking over Emma's role as the person who reminds folks how great her man is while being driven by his identity.

Oh snap.

[Disciple of Redd]

Thanks for the receipts, jollygoldfish!

People like to imply that those stories didn't happen, but those panels are stark reminders about why Jean was dead and why she should stay free now that she is back.

And lol at that progression from Maddie to Emma back to Jean... sometimes you just love whatever warm body is laying next to you, ya know? Lmao

[Havok83]

Adult Scott would need to find X-men willing to be lead by him now. That narrows the pool considerably - Emma, Magik, Magneto, maybe Namor as he would do it for Emma.



Aren't Jean and Polaris very good friends? They were both part of the original X-woman trinity (Jean/Storm/Polaris) and if your friend knows you well enough to get you your stripper ideal for your bachelorette party, that friendship is a keeper. I haven't been following Polaris or Blue to comment but that would be shame for their friendship.
.

I dont see why the X-men wouldnt follow him. The animosity was built off of the post-Utopia, Schism and AvX era and we are long past that. Jean seems to have forgiven him and likely would facilitate mending any fences. Having her give him her seal of approval would be enough. Anyways UXM 600 put Scott in a good position to move forward with everyone. The Hitler nonsense post-SW which set that back has since been retconned with DoX. Especially with White being a fan of 90s boyscout Scott, I cant see him returning and having everyone back to hating him. Thats old news

Good friends can disagree on stuff. That forms the basis of Xavier and Magneto's relationship. Just bc they are rivals doesnt mean they have to be enemies. Jean and her approach is more passive and peaceful. Polaris is more aggressive. They naturally see things differently on how to protect mutantkind and how to move things forward for them. They dont need to fight, but they can clash on how to handle certain situations

[mike7171]

Adult Scott would need to find X-men willing to be lead by him now. That narrows the pool considerably - Emma, Magik, Magneto, maybe Namor as he would do it for Emma.



Aren't Jean and Polaris very good friends? They were both part of the original X-woman trinity (Jean/Storm/Polaris) and if your friend knows you well enough to get you your stripper ideal for your bachelorette party, that friendship is a keeper. I haven't been following Polaris or Blue to comment but that would be shame for their friendship.



It's quite sad for Jean when you think about it. The man she chose dishonored her in life and the one she didn't honored her in death.



1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Also, in House of M when everyone got their heart's desire, Scott and Emma were married. No sign of Jean.



I don't think the Scott in Phoenix Resurrection was really Scott but a construct of the PF. If it is him, that's even worse. It makes him really sound like a liar.

To Maddie: I love you for you, Maddie. Not because you look exactly like my girlfriend who died 6 months ago.
To Jean: *Insert wedding vows*
To Emma: I chose you.
Back to Jean: I thought about you everyday.

Not a great track record...



Adult Scott is no longer the man that was happy raising Cable with boring Jean as a family in her ugly utilitarian clothes.





I'm speaking generally about X-men fans who follow and read the comics, the ones who are willing to buy into the comics subscription business model which is a small subset of the video game/movie/TV audience. There are always exceptions. I can think of a few reasons why there may be Jott fans around - they didn't read Morrison or treat it like fanfiction rather than an important part of continuity so the "end" was not extremely negative, or the "peak" of their Jott experience was DPS or the wedding or raising Cable and it left a particularly strong impression which was strong enough to overcome the "end" effect even with recency bias. But I don't think either applies to the majority of X-book comics readers.

On Scemma, Marvel spent 14 years pushing that pairing and made them front and center of the X-books. There's suvivorship bias in that the people who are still buying the comics are generally the ones who like reading Scemma. If you go looking through tumblr, twitter, other comics forums, blogs, v-logs, fanart and other fansites on the web, you'll see that the Scemma stuff gets a lot more likes/interest than other posts.

To be fair, the comics division at Marvel may be a different animal in that they stated several years ago that they saw it as R&D for their other more lucrative revenue streams like movies and TV. Therefore, rather than maximize profit, they are using comics as a way to experiment with different stories and see what stories they can use on the big screen.



Oh snap.

I actually am liking that Scott chose Emma, so when he comes back he would choose Emma again. Which means, Jean will be left alone to grow and not be entangled in any drama sorrounding her relationship with Scott. Let their relationship just stay in the past, no rekindling, nothing. Just a civil relationship between ex-wife and ex-husband. From the pics posted, it seems Emma was the right choice for Scott.

As for the Cyclops in Phoenix Ressurection, i think he's the real Scott. He probably was thinking about her a lot because they never really had closure, no saying goodbyes, etc.

[spirit2011]

I actually am liking that Scott chose Emma, so when he comes back he would choose Emma again. Which means, Jean will be left alone to grow and not be entangled in any drama sorrounding her relationship with Scott. Let their relationship just stay in the past, no rekindling, nothing. Just a civil relationship between ex-wife and ex-husband. From the pics posted, it seems Emma was the right choice for Scott.

As for the Cyclops in Phoenix Ressurection, i think he's the real Scott. He probably was thinking about her a lot because they never really had closure, no saying goodbyes, etc.

Seeing where the relationship with |Emma went for him: dead and hated, I agree with you.

Scott just felt guilty. that is why he kept thinking about Jean

[spirit2011]

It's quite sad for Jean when you think about it. The man she chose dishonored her in life and the one she didn't honored her in death.

It is really sad. Wolverine honored her a lot

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Also, in House of M when everyone got their heart's desire, Scott and Emma were married. No sign of Jean.

I get mad that when Jean was dead all Scott did was shit on her. But now that Scott is dead is all about flowers and hearsts about Scott.
look at all the crap Scott put Jean through

I don't think the Scott in Phoenix Resurrection was really Scott but a construct of the PF. If it is him, that's even worse. It makes him really sound like a liar.

To Maddie: I love you for you, Maddie. Not because you look exactly like my girlfriend who died 6 months ago.
To Jean: *Insert wedding vows*
To Emma: I chose you.
Back to Jean: I thought about you everyday.

Not a great track record...

Cyclops fans: but Jean loved Logaaansz

I'm speaking generally about X-men fans who follow and read the comics, the ones who are willing to buy into the comics subscription business model which is a small subset of the video game/movie/TV audience. There are always exceptions. I can think of a few reasons why there may be Jott fans around - they didn't read Morrison or treat it like fanfiction rather than an important part of continuity so the "end" was not extremely negative, or the "peak" of their Jott experience was DPS or the wedding or raising Cable and it left a particularly strong impression which was strong enough to overcome the "end" effect even with recency bias. But I don't think either applies to the majority of X-book comics readers.

On Scemma, Marvel spent 14 years pushing that pairing and made them front and center of the X-books. There's suvivorship bias in that the people who are still buying the comics are generally the ones who like reading Scemma. If you go looking through tumblr, twitter, other comics forums, blogs, v-logs, fanart and other fansites on the web, you'll see that the Scemma stuff gets a lot more likes/interest than other posts.

To be fair, the comics division at Marvel may be a different animal in that they stated several years ago that they saw it as R&D for their other more lucrative revenue streams like movies and TV. Therefore, rather than maximize profit, they are using comics as a way to experiment with different stories and see what stories they can use on the big screen.

.

Never noted Scemma fans outnumber Jott fans. I think when scemma was still going on, they easily outnumbered.
But right now is must be on 50/50

[Gray Lensman]

Relationships and feelings about them are probably the most common things things that get retconned in Marvel - maybe even ahead of what the Phoenix really is. When writers and what they prefer change, how things were portrayed also change.

Did Scott always have Jean first in his heart or did he prefer Emma? That will be decided by whoever writes him next, irrespective of what has been on panel (both answers are on panel anyways) and any debates we have here mean less than nothing.

How Jean feels can just as easily change with the writer as well. Does she forgive him, blame herself, be angry at him but with a path back, or hate him and feel what he did is worse than what anyone else ever tried to do to her (including every act by every villain combined) - well, that also depends on what the next writer decides, even if it goes against what we have seen on panel already.

We readers just have to deal with it.

[Havok83]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Also, in House of M when everyone got their heart's desire, Scott and Emma were married. No sign of Jean.

Morrison's run and Endsong. Thats hardly Marvel constantly trying to downplay Scott and Jean's relationship as teenage love and Emma as the love of his life. The other scans you posted dont really do that. Meanwhile Marvel did constantly push Emma as being threatened by Jean's ghost. Scott would often think/dream about Jean when in bed with Emma. His love for Jean never went away and Emma knew that. Ironically that scan you posted from Endsong was after Scott had a dream about Jean and he had to reassure Emma that Jean was his past. Thats something he had to keep doing bc he was never able to completely get over her

I don't think the Scott in Phoenix Resurrection was really Scott but a construct of the PF. If it is him, that's even worse. It makes him really sound like a liar.

To Maddie: I love you for you, Maddie. Not because you look exactly like my girlfriend who died 6 months ago.
To Jean: *Insert wedding vows*
To Emma: I chose you.
Back to Jean: I thought about you everyday.

Not a great track record...

He didnt lie to Maddie. He meant what he said to her when he said it. That relationship was doomed from the beginning though for obvious reasons. And as stated thinking about Jean everyday wasnt a lie. That was established when Scott was alive

I'm speaking generally about X-men fans who follow and read the comics, the ones who are willing to buy into the comics subscription business model which is a small subset of the video game/movie/TV audience. There are always exceptions. I can think of a few reasons why there may be Jott fans around - they didn't read Morrison or treat it like fanfiction rather than an important part of continuity so the "end" was not extremely negative, or the "peak" of their Jott experience was DPS or the wedding or raising Cable and it left a particularly strong impression which was strong enough to overcome the "end" effect even with recency bias. But I don't think either applies to the majority of X-book comics readers.

On Scemma, Marvel spent 14 years pushing that pairing and made them front and center of the X-books. There's suvivorship bias in that the people who are still buying the comics are generally the ones who like reading Scemma. If you go looking through tumblr, twitter, other comics forums, blogs, v-logs, fanart and other fansites on the web, you'll see that the Scemma stuff gets a lot more likes/interest than other posts.

To be fair, the comics division at Marvel may be a different animal in that they stated several years ago that they saw it as R&D for their other more lucrative revenue streams like movies and TV. Therefore, rather than maximize profit, they are using comics as a way to experiment with different stories and see what stories they can use on the big screen.

Marvel didnt push Emma and Scott for 14 years. They ended that toxic pairing in 2012. They became an official couple in 2005, so it was closer to 7 years. While we got alot of them in that era, 7 years is literally a blimp in X-men history and we're 6 years removed from that

[Cyke is Slim]

@goldfish I am too sleepy to discuss this in THIS thread (Pretty sure gonna regret it) but Lol, idk if this is the right word- but too MUCH HEADCANON? that it hurts. IIRC, there was a recent poll in twitter and results were JOTT. In general, Scemma gets plenty of HATE. To be honest, the relationship got stale after HOUSE of M. People like Emma, not Scemma, in general. Then there are neutrals.

Adult Scott...







And that panel from the Bendis' run when he sees Jean for the first time & ...." the one I love"... You know its pretty easy to say that I would like to see Jean with someone else, rather than trying to denigrate JOTT and their history, I see it reguraly here. Scott & Jean they both did a lot for each other. Also, Jean will continue to lead in X-men Red regardless of what happens with Cyclops,imo. That's all, thank you. It's 3am here, sorry for the bad english.

[Wiccan]

Adult Scott is no longer the man that was happy raising Cable with boring Jean as a family in her ugly utilitarian clothes.

1 - I never said he was. I said that this shows how their relationship was much more than "teenage love", and so, all the statements saying otherwise are what disrespect continuity, not Scott loving Jean more than Emma now.

2 - He's not the man who was in love with Emma anymore either.

I don't think the Scott in Phoenix Resurrection was really Scott but a construct of the PF. If it is him, that's even worse. It makes him really sound like a liar.

It doesn't matter what you think, the story says it's the real Scott. Unless another writer goes and literally states otherwise on panel, then it's him.

I'm speaking generally about X-men fans who follow and read the comics, the ones who are willing to buy into the comics subscription business model which is a small subset of the video game/movie/TV audience.There's suvivorship bias in that the people who are still buying the comics are generally the ones who like reading Scemma. If you go looking through tumblr, twitter, other comics forums, blogs, v-logs, fanart and other fansites on the web, you'll see that the Scemma stuff gets a lot more likes/interest than other posts.
On Scemma, Marvel spent 14 years pushing that pairing and made them front and center of the X-books. There's suvivorship bias in that the people who are still buying the comics are generally the ones who like reading Scemma.

Scemma gets more likes on tumblr or whatever, Jott is more loved here on CBR... There's no ultimate proof of which fandom buys more comics than the others, you're just speculating. And I don't know where did the 14 years number came from. Are you just counting it from the duration of Jean's death? LOL. Scemma started getting pushed in 2004 and ended on 2012. That's 8 years. If you count the time they were apart but on the same team it's 11.

[spirit2011]

Relationships and feelings about them are probably the most common things things that get retconned in Marvel - maybe even ahead of what the Phoenix really is. When writers and what they prefer change, how things were portrayed also change.

Did Scott always have Jean first in his heart or did he prefer Emma? That will be decided by whoever writes him next, irrespective of what has been on panel (both answers are on panel anyways) and any debates we have here mean less than nothing.

How Jean feels can just as easily change with the writer as well. Does she forgive him, blame herself, be angry at him but with a path back, or hate him and feel what he did is worse than what anyone else ever tried to do to her (including every act by every villain combined) - well, that also depends on what the next writer decides, even if it goes against what we have seen on panel already.

We readers just have to deal with it.

I really doubt that Jean feeling about Scott will ever change, he can have others loves but Jean can't

Anyway with all the constant changes, it is clear that Jean will be sacrificed to help boost Scott and whatever woman he is dating.

[Ulfhammer]

Adult Scott would need to find X-men willing to be lead by him now. That narrows the pool considerably - Emma, Magik, Magneto, maybe Namor as he would do it for Emma.



Aren't Jean and Polaris very good friends? They were both part of the original X-woman trinity (Jean/Storm/Polaris) and if your friend knows you well enough to get you your stripper ideal for your bachelorette party, that friendship is a keeper. I haven't been following Polaris or Blue to comment but that would be shame for their friendship.



It's quite sad for Jean when you think about it. The man she chose dishonored her in life and the one she didn't honored her in death.



1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Also, in House of M when everyone got their heart's desire, Scott and Emma were married. No sign of Jean.



I don't think the Scott in Phoenix Resurrection was really Scott but a construct of the PF. If it is him, that's even worse. It makes him really sound like a liar.

To Maddie: I love you for you, Maddie. Not because you look exactly like my girlfriend who died 6 months ago.
To Jean: *Insert wedding vows*
To Emma: I chose you.
Back to Jean: I thought about you everyday.

Not a great track record...



Adult Scott is no longer the man that was happy raising Cable with boring Jean as a family in her ugly utilitarian clothes.





I'm speaking generally about X-men fans who follow and read the comics, the ones who are willing to buy into the comics subscription business model which is a small subset of the video game/movie/TV audience. There are always exceptions. I can think of a few reasons why there may be Jott fans around - they didn't read Morrison or treat it like fanfiction rather than an important part of continuity so the "end" was not extremely negative, or the "peak" of their Jott experience was DPS or the wedding or raising Cable and it left a particularly strong impression which was strong enough to overcome the "end" effect even with recency bias. But I don't think either applies to the majority of X-book comics readers.

On Scemma, Marvel spent 14 years pushing that pairing and made them front and center of the X-books. There's suvivorship bias in that the people who are still buying the comics are generally the ones who like reading Scemma. If you go looking through tumblr, twitter, other comics forums, blogs, v-logs, fanart and other fansites on the web, you'll see that the Scemma stuff gets a lot more likes/interest than other posts.

To be fair, the comics division at Marvel may be a different animal in that they stated several years ago that they saw it as R&D for their other more lucrative revenue streams like movies and TV. Therefore, rather than maximize profit, they are using comics as a way to experiment with different stories and see what stories they can use on the big screen.



Oh snap.

There's a huge amount of selective evidence at work here, mostly Morrison (a man with a clear agenda) and those who came after, trying make sense of what he wrote. Regardless, cherry picking panels from 50+ years of continuity could "prove" just about any theory one can think of. As with all serialized fiction, consistency will always be a problems. Taken on the balance of the stories as a whole, there's no doubt that Jott was the more enduring relationship, and the one which IMO supported the most moral and heroic versions of both characters. That said I thoroughly enjoyed most of their appearances and remain an ardent fan of both characters.

However, there remains a huge elephant in the room around this whole topic, and that's HTC. HTC remains one of the worst agency crimes ever committed by an X-Men writer on an A-list character. Scott's life was completely hijacked by that decision and remains so to this day. What's just as bad IMO is that Jean was one who perpetrated the entire fiasco. I can't imagine a situation where Scott would willingly want that to be done to him, or Jean would choose to do that to him. Obviously Morrison couldn't either, which was why he had to hand wave the entire situation to get the outcome he wanted. He couldn't find a reasonable emotion basis for the outcome, so he wrote it as Jean's only solution to a crisis, which I find laughable. For those of us who remain fans of Scott and Jean together, this will never sit well because it simply was never earned. Even for those not a fan of the pairing, I think HCT was a crime against both characters individually as well. To say that what Jean did was the only option to resolve future problems is ridiculous.

The fortunate part of all this is that HCT has essentially been buried. No one was aware of it other than Jean, and likely in her case only as the Phoenix. The unfortunate part in all this is that the truth of what really happened will likely never see the light of day. The impact of this decision is too wide spread for editorially to easily fix, even if they wanted to. Many Scott fans would rather forget about it because it means our favorite mutant had one of the most important decisions of his life, made without his knowledge and taints everything that came after. For Jean fans I can't think that acknowledging this would sit well either because it's simply the worst kind of violation of a characters free will, which Jean as a telepath would likely abhor and rightly consider an outright immoral act.

Regardless it did happen, just like Scott walking out on Maddie, Inferno, the affair and everything else sordid that's been on panel happened. You simply can't discount this event and lay the consequences of this decision entirely at Scott's feet. I can see how it would be convenient to do so, but that's not what happened. For those who disagree with my interpretation of HCT, well, we've been down that road before. I have no interest in debating the matter. I think the panels themselves and the follow up explanations from Marvel editorial are very clear on what happened, so anything further I say isn't going to convince anyone. Luckily, Marvel did ultimately correct this injustice by dissolving Emma and Scott's relationship, which made sense since it was never solidly founded to begin with. Despite that, even Jean and Scott's last moments together in PR didn't do Scott much justice since it made him appear very duplicitous during his relationship with Emma. It follows with the logic that Scott was only with her because Jean pushed him that way, but damn, this guy keeps paying for that story over and over.