Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[butterflykyss]

Does it have to be though? Really? We have characters running around like Thor and Scarlet Witch and etc that are potentially just as powerful. And Phoenix was originally intended to match Thor.

not to be that gurl but originally Phoenix was given to Jean to put her on the power levels of Ororo. There was an interview Claremont did about this years ago:



That said, I dont think the thor or scarlet witch are anywhere near the level of Phoenix. Phoenix to me is a multiversal threat (maybe just a universal), as the white Phoenix of the crown she had the power to impact galaxies. The same isnt true for Thor and Scarlet Witch. So I think it makes sense to have her be separate from the Phoenix to stand on her own power and see what she without the Phoenix can really do.

[Gortam]

Jean´s comment on Rachel is a dissaster.

Its an example of a writter having no respect or interest in the characters he is writing.

[Portsian]

Outside of Rogue and Gambit, Guggs has ignored anything that other writers have done so i wouldnt think much of this. It can easily be no-prized as Nova hasnt actually done anything to Rachel yet. She's been using nannites to control people and Jean didnt sense any psychic tampering bc Nova hasnt done any yet. She just planted the seeds to do so later through the nannites Rachel has

If its even part of the same time frame.

[Grey]

not to be that gurl but originally Phoenix was given to Jean to put her on the power levels of Ororo. There was an interview Claremont did about this years ago:



That said, I dont think the thor or scarlet witch are anywhere near the level of Phoenix. Phoenix to me is a multiversal threat (maybe just a universal), as the white Phoenix of the crown she had the power to impact galaxies. The same isnt true for Thor and Scarlet Witch.

It’s funny how people interpret things the way they want.

Having her have “power levels equivalent to storm” does not at all mean “Phoenix was given to her to put her on the power levels of storm.”

The difference is that one is a simple comparison (their words) vs injecting intent (your words). Sure as Phoenix they are saying they envisioned the two having the same power level. That doesn’t mean they gave jean Phoenix to that she could have storm’s power level. Those are two different things.

Never mind that fact that what’s “originally intended” for any comic story is different than what actually is current canon. Retcons and character changes always happen and I’m speaking for any character, for better or worse.

[Harpsikord]

Are we really tryna make appreciation threads about other characters now? Get outta here with that shiz.

Claremont also said later, or perhaps before, that he was trying to make Phoenix the X-Men's own Thor - who he saw as outclassing Storm. So...

[butterflykyss]

It’s funny how people interpret things the way they want.

Having her have “power levels equivalent to storm” does not at all mean “Phoenix was given to her to put her on the power levels of storm.”

The difference is that one is a simple comparison (their words) vs injecting intent (your words). Sure as Phoenix they are saying they envisioned the two having the same power level. That doesn’t mean they gave jean Phoenix to that she could have storm’s power level. Those are two different things.

Never mind that fact that what’s “originally intended” for any comic story is different than what actually is current canon. Retcons and character changes always happen and I’m speaking for any character, for better or worse.

I'm actually not interpreting anything.

The statement says " so after the saving of the universe she was meant to be stuck at Storm's level of power." She saved the universe with the power of the Phoenix, and the interviewer asked Claremont was she meant to be stuck at those levels (Storm's level of power) after saving the universe. I am quoting exactly what the writer said.

So there is no intent on my end other than to quote the writer and frankly I'm not sure how you can even interpret that to mean anything different from what I am saying. I really didn't want to get into this debate (the scan was meant to show that Clarement actually indicated giving her Phoenix was meant to put her on the levels of Storm and not Thor), the words are there in black and white. All in all, Jean becoming Phoenix was meant to be put her at Ororo's level of power, which as the Phoenix she was able to save the universe. My main point was simply that Jean not having the Phoenix anymore allows her to actually demonstrate what she is capable of on her own, which I think is also a good thing for her character.

[butterflykyss]

Are we really tryna make appreciation threads about other characters now? Get outta here with that shiz.

Claremont also said later, or perhaps before, that he was trying to make Phoenix the X-Men's own Thor - who he saw as outclassing Storm. So...

I was making a clarification that you made about where Jean's power levels were intended to be when she was given the Phoenix. Were you making this a Thor appreciation thread when you brought his name up to make the point you originally made? How then are you accusing me of doing something you yourself initially did?

At any rate, whether Claremont said Thor or Storm, Phoenix now is more powerful than either character and her having the Phoenix doesn't allow for people to see what Jean is fully capable of. Matter of fact, Thor got his arse handed to him when he fought Phoenix during AvX; to conclude Phoenix and Thor are on the same power level is just simply canonically not true. So again, Jean not having Phoenix is a good thing for her character in the long haul.

[nx01a]

Are we really tryna make appreciation threads about other characters now? Get outta here with that shiz.

[nx01a]

So again, Jean not having Phoenix is a good thing for her character in the long haul.

I completely agree... just like Storm just controlling the weather and being kick ass are good things for her character in the long run.

Now! Back to appreciating Jean... She was RATHER cold to Rachel in XG #33, wasn't she? I really hope their relationship gets sorted out in the upcoming Rachel confrontation in Red.

[Wiccan]

Are we really tryna make appreciation threads about other characters now? Get outta here with that shiz.

They talk so much about Jean on the Storm thread that they're starting to think the threads are interchangeable.

[AHRNIHAL]

Is blue preview out yet?

[butterflykyss]

I completely agree... just like Storm just controlling the weather and being kick ass are good things for her character in the long run.

Now! Back to appreciating Jean... She was RATHER cold to Rachel in XG #33, wasn't she? I really hope their relationship gets sorted out in the upcoming Rachel confrontation in Red.

sure thing beloved. sure thing.

[Digifiend]

I completely agree... just like Storm just controlling the weather and being kick ass are good things for her character in the long run.

Now! Back to appreciating Jean... She was RATHER cold to Rachel in XG #33, wasn't she? I really hope their relationship gets sorted out in the upcoming Rachel confrontation in Red.

Isn't the Mom stuff just banter? Our Jean ISN'T actually her mother, her real Mom is an AU version. Teen Jean made a similar sort of remark in the Gold/Blue crossover.

[nx01a]

Isn't the Mom stuff just banter? Our Jean ISN'T actually her mother, her real Mom is an AU version. Teen Jean made a similar sort of remark in the Gold/Blue crossover.

There are ways to make the 'I'm not your real mom' come out as a joke and not sound stone cold like [to me] Jean said it there.

[jollygoldfish]

This is kind of the entire problem, though, isn't it? Jean's character is intrinsically tied to the Phoenix for multiple reasons, and as a result whenever she has the Phoenix there will be a power struggle - but that's a story that can only be told so many times interestingly.

In order to keep the personality of the Phoenix though I might say make it a conscious Jekyll/Hyde situation. Sometimes Jean lets the Phoenix out to "play" when necessary.

Yes the Phoenix has its own personality and will but other avatars like Rachel/Mother Askani have used it freely in full control of themselves. What differs is how much of its power the PF allows that avatar to draw.

If the Phoenix becomes a powerup that is a conscious Jekyll/Hyde situation, do you mean something similar to Bruce Banner and Hulk? I also think the PF and Jean will eventually come together again but what I don't want is for Jean to become too powerful or a deus ex machina that Marvel will kill off again for 14 years...

not to be that gurl but originally Phoenix was given to Jean to put her on the power levels of Ororo. There was an interview Claremont did about this years ago:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads...1086-j7t54.jpg

That said, I dont think the thor or scarlet witch are anywhere near the level of Phoenix. Phoenix to me is a multiversal threat (maybe just a universal), as the white Phoenix of the crown she had the power to impact galaxies. The same isnt true for Thor and Scarlet Witch. So I think it makes sense to have her be separate from the Phoenix to stand on her own power and see what she without the Phoenix can really do.

What I read from that was Claremont's original plan was Jean was meant to be "stuck" at Storm's level of power (i.e. she has the potential for more but for some reason is restricted to Storm's power level) and that Jean at her full potential has the power to repair the M'krann Crystal even she only reaches it for just one moment.