Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[Disciple of Redd]

That's what's annoying about Rachel. This Jean isn't her mom. Her thinking/pretending so is psycho behavior.

It'd be one thing if Rachel wasn't aware that she didn't actually travel time, but it's been years. Time to let go.

[phoenixzero23]

Is blue preview out yet?

Not yet, i'm eagerly awaiting for the next issues because they are placed in the future, hopeful we will find out what happened with time displaced Iceman. I suspect he is going to be the hooded figure, he is the only one missing on all the flashes and art from this particular future.

[butterflykyss]

What I read from that was Claremont's original plan was Jean was meant to be "stuck" at Storm's level of power (i.e. she has the potential for more but for some reason is restricted to Storm's power level) and that Jean at her full potential has the power to repair the M'krann Crystal even she only reaches it for just one moment.

I agree here partially. Yes Jean would go to levels beyond the Phoenix, which was what occurred with the Dark Phoenix saga (though that was revealed later on not to be the true Jean). Dark Phoenix had more power than regular Phoenix, which does demonstrate she had potential for levels far greater than just the Phoenix. That said, with the power that Jean had as Phoenix when she saved the universe her levels were equivalent to Ororo. My initial statement wasn't to say that she could not go beyond the power of the Phoenix, simply that her having those powers then was something that put her and Ororo on equal power levels.

[nx01a]

That's what's annoying about Rachel. This Jean isn't her mom. Her thinking/pretending so is psycho behavior.
It'd be one thing if Rachel wasn't aware that she didn't actually travel time, but it's been years. Time to let go.

Rachel has been traumatized on a fairly regular basis, so her letting anything go must be difficult. The relationship Jean developed with Rachel in the 90s was sweet and acknowledged that Jean is a version of Rachel's mother.

[PowerPlay25]

I honestly don't get all the noise with Rachelgate. Are people actually THAT fond of the relationship. I don't think I've ever paid it much attention. I didn't think Jean came off cold, just matter of fact. She seemed glad that Rachel was ok and free of whatever had been bothering her (I don't read Gold).

Considering all the things Jean has lost, her parents, her siblings, I don't think she owes anyone anything outside of being an X-Man. Rachel's a big girl who should be well-versed with the facts of her life. I took the Red Annual as Jean add Rachel having a nice afternoon and Jean offering to be there for Rachel if she needs anything (like a second supporting opinion on psychic health) I don't think Jean needs to tuck Rachel in at night and pretend the spoon is an airplane to feed her. But this could all be my bias because I don't like Rachel. I know she has her fans but I've always seen her as a knock off.

[AHRNIHAL]

Not yet, i'm eagerly awaiting for the next issues because they are placed in the future, hopeful we will find out what happened with time displaced Iceman. I suspect he is going to be the hooded figure, he is the only one missing on all the flashes and art from this particular future.

I too think iceman is the hooded figure.

[AHRNIHAL]

Not yet, i'm eagerly awaiting for the next issues because they are placed in the future, hopeful we will find out what happened with time displaced Iceman. I suspect he is going to be the hooded figure, he is the only one missing on all the flashes and art from this particular future.

I too think iceman is the hooded figure.

[Harpsikord]

If the Phoenix becomes a powerup that is a conscious Jekyll/Hyde situation, do you mean something similar to Bruce Banner and Hulk?

Yes, only with Jean willfully in control of when the Phoenix takes over.

[ClanAskani]

Rachel has been traumatized on a fairly regular basis, so her letting anything go must be difficult. The relationship Jean developed with Rachel in the 90s was sweet and acknowledged that Jean a version of Rachel's mother.

Rachel had sort of let it go when she was brought back to the 616 in Weinberg's run on Cable. She told Nathan not to tell anyone she was back - which seemed a little weird since Jean was regularly appearing in Cable at the time. I'm not sure Nathan could have actually telepathically hidden the fact that Rachel was back from her. Then Nathan didn't notice Rachel was abducted by Bogan (maybe having told Jean might have allowed someone to keep tabs on the fact that Rachel disappeared without anyone noticing, but that was plot necessity).

Then Claremont brought Rachel back to the X-Men as Marvel Girl, renamed her Rachel Grey and made her hyper-focused on Jean.

But the point about Jean and Rachel is that they were sort of a family in Askani Future (AoC&P). While Rachel only has limited, scattered memories of that time, Jean does remember. So there's enough time that's passed that Rachel and Jean have become sort of a family.

Are people actually THAT fond of the relationship.

There's a fair number of people upset, judging by the people posting on here and on Twitter.

Back in the 80s/90s, I know X-writers were surprised on how big of a deal it was to readers when Rachel and Jean would meet was. I talked to Louise Simonson at a comic con in 1992 (she wrote several of the issues of Days of Future Present and had just left X-Factor) and asked about when we'd see an X-Factor/Excalibur crossover and Jean & Rachel to finally make amends. She basically told me - comics are for 12 year old boys and you're never going to get what you (a teenage girl) want to see happen. But she said that she was surprised by the number of guys who asked her about Jean and Rachel.

[phoenixzero23]

I honestly don't get all the noise with Rachelgate. Are people actually THAT fond of the relationship. I don't think I've ever paid it much attention. I didn't think Jean came off cold, just matter of fact. She seemed glad that Rachel was ok and free of whatever had been bothering her (I don't read Gold).

Considering all the things Jean has lost, her parents, her siblings, I don't think she owes anyone anything outside of being an X-Man. Rachel's a big girl who should be well-versed with the facts of her life. I took the Red Annual as Jean add Rachel having a nice afternoon and Jean offering to be there for Rachel if she needs anything (like a second supporting opinion on psychic health) I don't think Jean needs to tuck Rachel in at night and pretend the spoon is an airplane to feed her. But this could all be my bias because I don't like Rachel. I know she has her fans but I've always seen her as a knock off.

I honestly only care about Jean/Cable but the thing is that this particular interaction felt a bit cold, something "unjeanly". It's like for example Gabby were to talk with Logan and he coldly told her that she is only Laura's clone and has nothing to do with him. While this would be true it would be out of character for logan and you know he and gabby are weirdly related. More or less that's what i didn't like.

[jollygoldfish]

I agree here partially. Yes Jean would go to levels beyond the Phoenix, which was what occurred with the Dark Phoenix saga (though that was revealed later on not to be the true Jean). Dark Phoenix had more power than regular Phoenix, which does demonstrate she had potential for levels far greater than just the Phoenix. That said, with the power that Jean had as Phoenix when she saved the universe her levels were equivalent to Ororo. My initial statement wasn't to say that she could not go beyond the power of the Phoenix, simply that her having those powers then was something that put her and Ororo on equal power levels.

I'm taking these pretty much verbatim from that interview. Here:



and here:



It says that with power Jean had as Phoenix when she saved the universe, that was Jean at her full potential for just a moment and otherwise she was "stuck" at Storm's power levels. There's no mention of Dark Phoenix.

[Havok83]

Rachel has been traumatized on a fairly regular basis, so her letting anything go must be difficult. The relationship Jean developed with Rachel in the 90s was sweet and acknowledged that Jean a version of Rachel's mother.

IDA with that latter statemnt. Jean and Rachel never developed a relationship. We had Jean invite her to her wedding in an issue of Excalibur and there only interaction after that was at the wedding, where Jean was preocuppied with getting married. Being nice to and acknowledging her feelings isnt exactly what Id call a developed relationship. People have brought up AoC&P, but that was a much older version of Rachel whom was comatose. Those most development we've ever actually seen with Jean and Rachel was the Red annual from a couple of months ago. Thats the only time Jean actually spent more than an hour alone with Rachel. Their time was cut short back in the 90s before much could actually be done

[Wiccan]

This thread is such a mess today LOL. From the Phoenix retcon, to her relationship with Rachel, to power level arguing and comparisons to Storm. We just need someone to bring up Jott/Scemma and we have ticked all the boxes lol.

[Havok83]

This thread is such a mess today LOL. From the Phoenix retcon, to her relationship with Rachel, to power level arguing and comparisons to Storm. We just need someone to bring up Jott/Scemma and we have ticked all the boxes lol.

lol..Ive actually appreciated the recent discussion. Its felt alot more healthier than the toxic Scott/Jott bashing from recent weeks

[Harpsikord]

lol..Ive actually appreciated the recent discussion. Its felt alot more healthier than the toxic Scott/Jott bashing from recent weeks

Yeah, it honestly is. And it's fun to see other peoples' interpretations and ideas.