Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[Grey]

Speaking of Jean as a therapist, I always wondered if a telepath could fix certain disorders (that are cognitive/thought in nature, not biologically based) with the flip if a switch. Like cognitive depression or phobias for example.

Kinda like how young Xavier did for beast recently in anxm.

I have a bachelor's and master's in psychology and want to be a therapist, so this thought has always intrigued me.

[grinningdemon]

None of the X-Men are astronauts, and even if they were the radiation was the real issue, so it doesn't really lose much for me. But it's a moot hypothetical.

Jean in Evo is how a young Jean likely would have come across if they actually had tried writing her during the teen years. She even had her trademark temper back then in a few instances.

As for the movie if she actually was a geneticist I forgot but it still doesn't bother me. And in movieverse lets not stretch the state of things. That version of Earth was just beginning to realize mutants actually existed. The X-Men weren't out fighting bad guys every other week so they had time on their hands to do other things with their lives. I might be wrong but I think the first movie is the first time any of the X-Men actually met Magneto and his Brotherhood. The fact the X-Men had codenames actually comes across as a goofy oversight in context.

I only brought up the astronaut because someone suggested she could be one and that seemed like a completely off the wall example from out of nowhere.

Evo Jean was spot on, personality wise...the only thing that didn't track was her athletic ability...Jean has usually been depicted as physically weak and almost entirely dependent on her powers (something that has gotten her into trouble more than once).

And I hated the movies so there isn't really anything I'd want to see emulated in the comics.

[grinningdemon]

Speaking of Jean as a therapist, I always wondered if a telepath could fix certain disorders (that are cognitive/thought in nature, not biologically based) with the flip if a switch. Like cognitive depression or phobias for example.

Kinda like how young Xavier did for beast recently in anxm.

I have a bachelor's and master's in psychology and want to be a therapist, so this thought has always intrigued me.

It makes sense in some cases if they had the proper knowledge and control.

[nx01a]

She also went to collegue, you know.
But, the Marvel Universe really really really really needs an actual good therapist. And given that Doc Samcon is dead......................

I wasn't trying to besmirch or belittle Jean. I was just pointing out that modelling was a thing that most women from that era did.

Doc Sampson was great at his job. Who else can you go to for help with mental issues these days? Moonstone? Oh, dear.

[nx01a]

It makes sense in some cases if they had the proper knowledge and control.

I think it would be a matter of guided telepathic exercises before any actual psychic flicking of switches happened. If the patient isn't responding to real world psychological help or mild telepathic assistance, then go in and fiddle with stuff.

[ZNOP]

Jean and Emma in a therapy practice together. That would be... wow.

Remember when Emma claimed to be a sex therapist?

[Peanutsinspace]

Remember when Emma claimed to be a sex therapist?

If those two ran a practice together I think it'd be a bit like Nip/Tuck but with a lot more dysfunction lol Actually throw Storm in there as a Life Coach and you'd have a pretty crazy tv show.

[ariwl1]

Speaking of Jean as a therapist, I always wondered if a telepath could fix certain disorders (that are cognitive/thought in nature, not biologically based) with the flip if a switch. Like cognitive depression or phobias for example.

Kinda like how young Xavier did for beast recently in anxm.

I have a bachelor's and master's in psychology and want to be a therapist, so this thought has always intrigued me.

That was actually a topic in an X-Men novel in the 90s. Rogue asked Storm and Jean why they didn't use their various powers to fix the ills of the world like drought and mental illness. Storms response was twofold: there would be no end to the fixing weather is a serious of constantly moving systems, and she can't truly fix everything since if she brings enough rain to end a drought she's taking it from somewhere else and disrupting their ecosystem. Jean's explanation was...exactly the same. I didn't say it'd make sense...

Evo Jean was spot on, personality wise...the only thing that didn't track was her athletic ability...Jean has usually been depicted as physically weak and almost entirely dependent on her powers (something that has gotten her into trouble more than once).

And I hated the movies so there isn't really anything I'd want to see emulated in the comics.

Well Evo Jean didn't go around punching villains in costume. She used her powers pretty much exclusively in combat and got knocked out a time or two. So her being good at soccer as a hobby seems perfectly reasonable to me.

And I'm "meh..." on the movies as well, but that doesn't mean there aren't a few good ideas here and there.

If those two ran a practice together I think it'd be a bit like Nip/Tuck but with a lot more dysfunction lol Actually throw Storm in there as a Life Coach and you'd have a pretty crazy tv show.

Where can I pitch this? I want to see it.

[Sardorim]

Speaking of Jean as a therapist, I always wondered if a telepath could fix certain disorders (that are cognitive/thought in nature, not biologically based) with the flip if a switch. Like cognitive depression or phobias for example.

Kinda like how young Xavier did for beast recently in anxm.

I have a bachelor's and master's in psychology and want to be a therapist, so this thought has always intrigued me.

They can try but I don't think it's that simple. The cleanest path would be putting up Blocks but Blocks can eventually break and the other method, having mental sessions, still depends on the patient/client overcoming. There's only so much a TP user can do all on their own if they want a full recovery to happen naturally.

[jollygoldfish]

Scott completely lost his will to live after Jean's death...that is explicit canon...confirming Scott chose Emma 10 years after the fact means nothing...we don't know what the story would have been if Jean hadn't died at the end of Morrison's run...and, together or not, I don't believe they ever would have been so opposed ideologically that Schism would have happened.

Scott ran away from the X-Men because he's an impotent coward. He was guilty and afraid of doing what he really wanted which was to be with Emma. When Jean told him to live and took away his guilt, he then proceeded to act without any guilt or reservations and made out with Emma on Jean's grave on the day of her funeral. Even if Morrison in several interviews said Scott and Jean were over and Scott and Emma were perfect for each other, it's obvious to me he would have left with Emma even if Jean had lived.

Whatever the reason for Emma's status as co-leader, it did more for her character and made her more popular than ever so I certainly don't think it was to her detriment...it is a shame that she's being ignored now though.

It may have made her more popular than ever but it also made her character the embodiment of anti-feminism, a woman who gets her sense of self-worth from a man - a blonde plastic insecure Barbie who gets her sense of self worth from her sexuality rather than valuing herself as a person and who believes Cyclops is the only man who will ever love her so she lets him take advantage of her. What nerdy comic book male reader wouldn't want that?

Where are you getting that Scott & Maddie were together 9 years?

I stand corrected. I was trying to remember how long Jean was dead the first time around but it's true Scott and Maddie weren't together the whole time she was dead.

Bendis is having the characters evolve differently this time around but it's still something that comes up a lot and has been central to his arc so far.

The only time Bendis has brought it up is to deconstruct the relationship.

It would be better for them to split on reasonable terms and both end up with other people. And by other people I mean people who were never in love triangles with either of them. But that would require the X-Office to deal with what it truly fears. New Ideas

I don't agree. I see Scott/Emma and Jean/Logan as pairings that can neatly bring closure to the love triangles. I do agree though that it's better for her to move on to someone else.

What Jean's real role in the X-Men should be.

If she were alive today, I think she should have been given Havok's job in UA. There's no better spokesperson for mutants to the wider world that would give a good impression IMO. I think advocacy makes sense as the path she'd be most drawn to given her "mutant and proud" stance and her role in X-Factor.

Almost every woman in the 616 from the 60s and 70s has been a high fashion model at one point or another. It seemed like their default career because they, apparently, weren't good for anything but looking pretty.

Not all characters get a real life Vogue cover though!

[grinningdemon]

Scott ran away from the X-Men because he's an impotent coward. He was guilty and afraid of doing what he really wanted which was to be with Emma. When Jean told him to live and took away his guilt, he then proceeded to act without any guilt or reservations and made out with Emma on Jean's grave on the day of her funeral. Even if Morrison in several interviews said Scott and Jean were over and Scott and Emma were perfect for each other, it's obvious to me he would have left with Emma even if Jean had lived.

It may have made her more popular than ever but it also made her character the embodiment of anti-feminism, a woman who gets her sense of self-worth from a man - a blonde plastic insecure Barbie who gets her sense of self worth from her sexuality rather than valuing herself as a person and who believes Cyclops is the only man who will ever love her so she lets him take advantage of her. What nerdy comic book male reader wouldn't want that?

I stand corrected. I was trying to remember how long Jean was dead the first time around but it's true Scott and Maddie weren't together the whole time she was dead.

The only time Bendis has brought it up is to deconstruct the relationship.

I don't agree. I see Scott/Emma and Jean/Logan as pairings that can neatly bring closure to the love triangles. I do agree though that it's better for her to move on to someone else.

If she were alive today, I think she should have been given Havok's job in UA. There's no better spokesperson for mutants to the wider world that would give a good impression IMO. I think advocacy makes sense as the path she'd be most drawn to given her "mutant and proud" stance and her role in X-Factor.

Wow...you really don't understand the character at all...Morrison certainly would have had them break up but his run was over and the next writer or editor might have had other ideas...and, if he'd ever written either of them in character in the first place, none of it would have even happened in the first place...he had to pull a complete character assassination to make his story work...all those interviews prove was that he didn't get the characters at all...moreover, even the way Morrison wrote it, the ending was ambiguous at best...you could read into it either way and Morrison even left an out by having Jean give him that push at the end...I think he did that on purpose, despite his own feelings on the subject, because he knew it might be something someone would want to take back some day...that or the editors made him do it.

As for Emma getting her entire self worth from Scott, did you even read the books after Morrison's run? She was NEVER written that way...but using her sexuality as a weapon has been a part of the character since day one...the only thing she was ever insecure about was Jean (and for good reason).

Scott and Maddie were only together about half the time Jean was gone...and Claremont himself has has much as admitted the character only ever existed as a stand in for Jean to finish the story he wanted to tell with Scott & Jean in the first place.

Bendis hasn't only brought up Scott/Jean only to deconstruct the relationship or it wouldn't still be such a big plot point...it's one of the most dramatic elements he's got going in the book and he knows it...hell, he just had Jeen practically throw herself at adult Scott...that story is far from over and I wouldn't be surprised if Tyke/Jeen happens before he's done.

You're fooling yourself if you think those love triangles would go away with Scott/Emma and Jean/Wolverine as couples...if that happened, I guarantee they would push it harder than ever...and, even if they were with other people entirely, it would STILL come up...it's the nature of the beast...long standing, popular plot points or character arcs always come back around.

If you honestly wish Jean was in Uncanny Avengers so Remender could screw her up like he has everyone else in that book, then you have just lost all credibility with me...Uncanny Avengers is a bad joke.

On a side note, I can't help but find it funny that someone who so clearly hates Scott & Jean as a couple posted a scene from their wedding.

[ZNOP]

Wow...you really don't understand the character at all...Morrison certainly would have had them break up but his run was over and the next writer or editor might have had other ideas...and, if he'd ever written either of them in character in the first place, none of it would have even happened in the first place...he had to pull a complete character assassination to make his story work...all those interviews prove was that he didn't get the characters at all...moreover, even the way Morrison wrote it, the ending was ambiguous at best...you could read into it either way and Morrison even left an out by having Jean give him that push at the end...I think he did that on purpose, despite his own feelings on the subject, because he knew it might be something someone would want to take back some day...that or the editors made him do it.

As for Emma getting her entire self worth from Scott, did you even read the books after Morrison's run? She was NEVER written that way...but using her sexuality as a weapon has been a part of the character since day one...the only thing she was ever insecure about was Jean (and for good reason).

Scott and Maddie were only together about half the time Jean was gone...and Claremont himself has has much as admitted the character only ever existed as a stand in for Jean to finish the story he wanted to tell with Scott & Jean in the first place.

Bendis hasn't only brought up Scott/Jean only to deconstruct the relationship or it wouldn't still be such a big plot point...it's one of the most dramatic elements he's got going in the book and he knows it...hell, he just had Jeen practically throw herself at adult Scott...that story is far from over and I wouldn't be surprised if Tyke/Jeen happens before he's done.

You're fooling yourself if you think those love triangles would go away with Scott/Emma and Jean/Wolverine as couples...if that happened, I guarantee they would push it harder than ever...and, even if they were with other people entirely, it would STILL come up...it's the nature of the beast...long standing, popular plot points or character arcs always come back around.

If you honestly wish Jean was in Uncanny Avengers so Remender could screw her up like he has everyone else in that book, then you have just lost all credibility with me...Uncanny Avengers is a bad joke.

On a side note, I can't help but find it funny that someone who so clearly hates Scott & Jean as a couple posted a scene from their wedding.

Well, with Wolverine currently dead and encased in an Adamantium tomb, Teen Scott lost in space somewhere, adult Scott and Emma can have each other and, Teen Jean can be just that a teenager -- Teen Jean if she doesn't go back or even if she does she'll be quite single. So, people can bring it up all they want at this point it's not gonna ever happen between Logan and Jean unless PIS is involved and, that's a good thing.

[grinningdemon]

Well, with Wolverine currently dead and encased in an Adamantium tomb Teen Scott lost in space somewhere, and Teen Jean being just that a teenager Teen Jean if she doesn't go back or even as she does she'll be quite single and that's a good thing.

I want Tyke/Jeen to happen eventually but not soon...a slow build is better and I think it's interesting to see these characters evolve in new ways but still be recognizable as the characters from before...I like the Cyclops series but it is most likely ending soon and Tyke will probably come back in the upcoming space crossover.

[Omegastorm]

If those two ran a practice together I think it'd be a bit like Nip/Tuck but with a lot more dysfunction lol Actually throw Storm in there as a Life Coach and you'd have a pretty crazy tv show.

That would make a great pitch for a show actually.

o

[WallStreeter]

This also goes back to the whole issue of Marvel lacking any real female intellectuals in their lineup, the movies tried to address this with Jean and Sue but this never really made it into the comics. Kitty was supposed to be a child prodigy, but these days she mostly just does kung fu and yells at people a lot. I understand that there is a significant gender gap as far as these things go in the real world, but one thing that is commonly overlooked is that doctorates are not all that hard to get, and by no means imply you are an expert in your field or a distinguished researcher. I have a Ph.D. and I know that there are several others on these very boards who have them as well, and I'm sure any one of them will tell you that they have a long way to go before reaching the status that most people ascribe to fictional characters like Xavier.

Marvel is addressing this in the comics. Notice how all the experts on everything used to be male. Xavier great psychic expert. Scientists were Beast, Hank Pym, Reed Richards, T'Challa, etc. Magic expert Dr. Strange.

Magik has finally matured into a skilled sorceress and so has the Scarlet Witch. The new sorceress supreme, whoever she is, will be a woman. By the time of the Morrison run clearly Jean Grey was a great psychic expert and has understanding and cosmic awareness that made Xavier look like nothing. With Charles dead, either the most skilled psychics the X-Men have would be either Rachel Grey or Emma Frost. But teen Jean is rapidly developing her powers.

A psychologist is an intellectual, but for whatever reason they didn't like to reference Jean's education. In all of the gaps in her time with the X-Men, Kitty certainly has had enough time to get her BA at least. Monet is highly intelligent, and you see this in X-Men where she was the one who figured out the Sisterhood's motive of resurrecting dead enemies.

Teen Jean beat baby Xavier not just with her powers, but she also outsmarted him.