Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[Omegastorm]

Why would marvel get rid of the stars of their top selling x-book??

I'm an adult jean fan as much as anyone, but I'm not too greedy on this topic. I'm enjoying watching teen jean develop. If it paves the way for a future adult jean return, that's awesome- but even if not I'm enjoying the current ride.

Because they can get another cast in there and it would still be a top selling book. I seriously can't stand the premise of them being here. It's poorly constructed and silly. It serves no purpose other than to serve fluff. It's annoying.

o

[PwrdOn]

For some reason I think it's easier for guys to get away with that than girls. Female characters undergo a lot more scrutiny from pretty much all circles.

It's just a matter of familiarity I suppose, we've all been reading stories centered around idealized leading men since childhood, but women with the same kinds of characteristics are typically the preserve of lowbrow chick lit which mainstream audiences are mostly unaware of. Whenever you see this kind of character in any kind of work meant for male consumption, your first reaction is to start searching for some agenda or ulterior motive.

If you look at the male Jean derivatives like Cable, Nate Grey, or Quentin Quire, they're far less restricted in terms of how they can use their powers and Marvel is content to keep throwing them starring roles even though each is well past his peak in terms of fan appeal and don't look to be capable of reversing the downward trend any time soon.

[ariwl1]

If we're being in character Emma would likely never strike out on her own to start a school again because she does not trust herself to handle students on her own, because as Jean not so gently pointed out:

[Roddy010]

If we're being in character Emma would likely never strike out on her own to start a school again because she does not trust herself to handle students on her own, because as Jean not so gently pointed out:

Lol trial and error

[ariwl1]

It's just a matter of familiarity I suppose, we've all been reading stories centered around idealized leading men since childhood, but women with the same kinds of characteristics are typically the preserve of lowbrow chick lit which mainstream audiences are mostly unaware of. Whenever you see this kind of character in any kind of work meant for male consumption, your first reaction is to start searching for some agenda or ulterior motive.

If you look at the male Jean derivatives like Cable, Nate Grey, or Quentin Quire, they're far less restricted in terms of how they can use their powers and Marvel is content to keep throwing them starring roles even though each is well past his peak in terms of fan appeal and don't look to be capable of reversing the downward trend any time soon.

Product of our society I suppose. I had a lengthy debate yesterday with someone about whether gender flipping an established character automatically made them more interesting or not. I think I pissed him off pretty mightily.

Lol trial and error

Well I shouldn't pile just on Emma for that. This is a big issue with the franchise that's come to light in the past couple decades. When you have a situation where potential new superheroes can manifest like they're falling off the factory line, eventually you're going to run into the problem of "the cast of thousands" which the X-books have had since the 90's at least.

The old guard established characters will always remain center focus, and any new characters gaining ground and becoming appreciably popular in the current market is a freak of nature, so most of them become inherently disposable. Little wonder that so many new mutants who have come to light in the past couple years have been pretty ho-hum on the power scale.

[nightw1ng]

CC/Byrne era X-Men by Alex Ross.

He makes Jean look a tad menacing, though I kind of like how the flame from her hand is turning into a phoenix.

[Roddy010]

[QUOTE=ariwl1;190513
Well I shouldn't pile just on Emma for that. This is a big issue with the franchise that's come to light in the past couple decades. When you have a situation where potential new superheroes can manifest like they're falling off the factory line, eventually you're going to run into the problem of "the cast of thousands" which the X-books have had since the 90's at least.

The old guard established characters will always remain center focus, and any new characters gaining ground and becoming appreciably popular in the current market is a freak of nature, so most of them become inherently disposable. Little wonder that so many new mutants who have come to light in the past couple years have been pretty ho-hum on the power scale.[/QUOTE]
You're absolutely right about that, just like the victims of Genosha and Wanda's spell all were swept under the rug. That's what happens when you have such a large team of heroes with potentially to grow even more so. I guess they had to find a way to control their numbers.

[PwrdOn]

CC/Byrne era X-Men by Alex Ross.

He makes Jean look a tad menacing, though I kind of like how the flame from her hand is turning into a phoenix.

Alex Ross certainly has a knack for that grand, majestic composition that really makes for some great pieces. If you look closely, Jean actually appears twice in this one

[ariwl1]

You're absolutely right about that, just like the victims of Genosha and Wanda's spell all were swept under the rug. That's what happens when you have such a large team of heroes with potentially to grow even more so. I guess they had to find a way to control their numbers.

I forget which editor said (think it was Quesada) that population control was the entire reason Decimation happened in the first place. The X-Universe had expanded to be too large. I think they'd couched it by saying that the huge numbers were making mutants not be as special or something.

Alex Ross certainly has a knack for that grand, majestic composition that really makes for some great pieces. If you look closely, Jean actually appears twice in this one

The double appearance is a little odd since I think Jean is the only one to do double duty. I think for many artists they'll take any chance they can to draw the old school Phoenix costume.

[dragonmp93]

Because they can get another cast in there and it would still be a top selling book. I seriously can't stand the premise of them being here. It's poorly constructed and silly. It serves no purpose other than to serve fluff. It's annoying.

o

Do really you think that this book would really sell the same without Jean ?.

[dragonmp93]

It's just a matter of familiarity I suppose, we've all been reading stories centered around idealized leading men since childhood, but women with the same kinds of characteristics are typically the preserve of lowbrow chick lit which mainstream audiences are mostly unaware of. Whenever you see this kind of character in any kind of work meant for male consumption, your first reaction is to start searching for some agenda or ulterior motive.

If you look at the male Jean derivatives like Cable, Nate Grey, or Quentin Quire, they're far less restricted in terms of how they can use their powers and Marvel is content to keep throwing them starring roles even though each is well past his peak in terms of fan appeal and don't look to be capable of reversing the downward trend any time soon.

Besides that Jean is stuck on the role of the incorruptible pure pureness, the sane nice girl, the morality chain.

[PwrdOn]

Besides that Jean is stuck on the role of the incorruptible pure pureness, the sane nice girl, the morality chain.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's not as if only bad people ever get to do anything cool or interesting.

[nightw1ng]

Alex Ross certainly has a knack for that grand, majestic composition that really makes for some great pieces. If you look closely, Jean actually appears twice in this one

His art definitely has a majestic feel to it. The style doesn't fit everything, but when it does, it's quite beautiful. My favorite X-Men piece from Alex Ross is this homage to a page of interior art by Dave Cockrum in Uncanny X-Men 107. I have a poster of it hanging in my room.

[Omegastorm]

Do really you think that this book would really sell the same without Jean ?.

Yes, I do. It might actually sell better actually.

o

[dragonmp93]

There's nothing wrong with that, it's not as if only bad people ever get to do anything cool or interesting.

Well..................
"I can watch Cyclops objectively make the right choice, and fight for his woman, and help the school, and stand up as a reliable pillar of virtue and good intentions, but that doesn't matter, because Wolverine smokes, and smoking is cool."
— Daniel O'Brien, Cracked.

That's why Jean cant stay alive for long or use the Phoenix, because when you have a sane omnipotent character, the only stories you can tell are sitcoms.

Yes, I do. It might actually sell better actually.

o

Now im curious, what cast would you use ?.