Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

[cwatz]

I kind of hope Jean chose villainy. Hopefully it was for a compelling reason that she chose not to disclose to the people she was working against in BOTA but I liked seeing that side of Jean, such cold, implacable villainy. I liked that it showed that as a villainess she's very different from The Goblin Queen and White Queen and Selene.

I got the impression she became a villain because she believed in the Brotherhood's cause, now how she was convinced of such would be interesting to see but she was very crafty but very Zealot like. And she had a REAL mean streak, taunting Magik about how she'll one day kill herself.

IF Bendis leaves the X-Corner of the MU I hope he goes back to the Avengers (though I like what's happening there at present) and he takes Teen!Jean with him. I'd like to see her interact with characters outside the X-Corner.

Its almost certain that she didn't. They have the "I understand" from the mind controlled people. Im glad they didn't go there though. While I love seeing Jean with a temper and getting a little rowdy from time to time, any sort of villain turn would always turn me off. One of the big elements of her character that I like is the "pure, good one" thing that people rag on from time to time. Of course that doesn't mean I want a boring zombie or something, but I like her being a beacon of hope so to speak.

Im so mixed on where id like to see Jean. A solo sounds great due to the facetime she would get, but I also think she works best in a group environment. Branching off to something like avengers could be a change of pace and something interesting, but I can't shake the feeling that she would work best in the x-environment. Granted I know very little of avengers comics, but the x-books have always struck me as a little more personal. Be it friendships, mutant cause, all that sort of stuff.

It helps that she can really stand out in that environment. She can mix perfectly into all the x-stuff, while at the same time kind of being an outsider of sorts. If you look at something like DPS or Morrison, she is very much part of the x-men, but there is this exciting dangerous part off to the side where she is really alone. It makes her relatively special.

ANXM is practically built off this and the main reason the book succeeds (granted I have a Jean bias). The time travel/alternates is a big turn off for a lot of people, and the O5 itself has resulted in next to nothing. It looks at mostly Jean/Scott interacting in the x-environment, and then all those interesting/exciting/dangerous elements to the side, all focused on Jean. Whats up with her pink power? Why does Xorna implode? Is a Phoenix appearance lingering around? Will she interact with Adult Jean at some point? Is she sticking around full time? Is the mixture of emotional trauma and extreme power going to lead to a meltdown? All these sorts of questions have fueled the book. With that said, when a lot of this stuff is explored, where do you go after that? Perhaps a shakeup is a way to find new material, rather than relying on the old, reliable stuff.

[PowerPlay25]

Its almost certain that she didn't. They have the "I understand" from the mind controlled people. Im glad they didn't go there though. While I love seeing Jean with a temper and getting a little rowdy from time to time, any sort of villain turn would always turn me off. One of the big elements of her character that I like is the "pure, good one" thing that people rag on from time to time. Of course that doesn't mean I want a boring zombie or something, but I like her being a beacon of hope so to speak.

Yikes. I think I'm one of those people. Jean "Goody" Grey has never interested me. And I didn't care for Jean during GM's New X-Men run it just seemed like there was nothing going on there. I know the plot had a lot simmering but Jean as a character, she just seemed really shallow and boring for lack of better terms, while I felt like Scott and Emma were much more well rounded characters at the time. I blame that on GM as I have read quite a few stories where Jean was compelling and interesting. And I've actually never read the DP Saga. I know many think it's the Holy Grail of X-Lore but it just never interested me.

I think the X-Men's star has been falling for some time now and I don't think the franchises fortunes are going to reverse any time soon. The Avengers have really picked up IMO because I wasn't always a fan but now there are so many characters I'd like to see Jean interact with. Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner, Clint Barton, Jessica Drew, Maria Hill, Johnny Storm. I don't think Jean will ever be free of the Scott of it all if she is marooned on X-Island. And I think Scott and Emma's ascension is a big reason why Jean's remained dead the past decade. That and GM/JQ's bias against her.

Jean has gifts that could be very valuable to groups like the Avengers and Sheild. And it would really be a new beginning for her.

[dragonmp93]

Its almost certain that she didn't. They have the "I understand" from the mind controlled people. Im glad they didn't go there though. While I love seeing Jean with a temper and getting a little rowdy from time to time, any sort of villain turn would always turn me off. One of the big elements of her character that I like is the "pure, good one" thing that people rag on from time to time. Of course that doesn't mean I want a boring zombie or something, but I like her being a beacon of hope so to speak.

Im so mixed on where id like to see Jean. A solo sounds great due to the facetime she would get, but I also think she works best in a group environment. Branching off to something like avengers could be a change of pace and something interesting, but I can't shake the feeling that she would work best in the x-environment. Granted I know very little of avengers comics, but the x-books have always struck me as a little more personal. Be it friendships, mutant cause, all that sort of stuff.

It helps that she can really stand out in that environment. She can mix perfectly into all the x-stuff, while at the same time kind of being an outsider of sorts. If you look at something like DPS or Morrison, she is very much part of the x-men, but there is this exciting dangerous part off to the side where she is really alone. It makes her relatively special.

ANXM is practically built off this and the main reason the book succeeds (granted I have a Jean bias). The time travel/alternates is a big turn off for a lot of people, and the O5 itself has resulted in next to nothing. It looks at mostly Jean/Scott interacting in the x-environment, and then all those interesting/exciting/dangerous elements to the side, all focused on Jean. Whats up with her pink power? Why does Xorna implode? Is a Phoenix appearance lingering around? Will she interact with Adult Jean at some point? Is she sticking around full time? Is the mixture of emotional trauma and extreme power going to lead to a meltdown? All these sorts of questions have fueled the book. With that said, when a lot of this stuff is explored, where do you go after that? Perhaps a shakeup is a way to find new material, rather than relying on the old, reliable stuff.

Well, is not only bias, according to the internet, a lot of people read ANXM just for jean, even people that apparently wouldnt touch anything written by Bendis with 10-feet stick.
You know, to me, Xorn never came off as evil, just traumatized and crazy; after all, the initial plan was just sending the O5 back to their own time.

Yikes. I think I'm one of those people. Jean "Goody" Grey has never interested me. And I didn't care for Jean during GM's New X-Men run it just seemed like there was nothing going on there. I know the plot had a lot simmering but Jean as a character, she just seemed really shallow and boring for lack of better terms, while I felt like Scott and Emma were much more well rounded characters at the time. I blame that on GM as I have read quite a few stories where Jean was compelling and interesting. And I've actually never read the DP Saga. I know many think it's the Holy Grail of X-Lore but it just never interested me.

I think the X-Men's star has been falling for some time now and I don't think the franchises fortunes are going to reverse any time soon. The Avengers have really picked up IMO because I wasn't always a fan but now there are so many characters I'd like to see Jean interact with. Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner, Clint Barton, Jessica Drew, Maria Hill, Johnny Storm. I don't think Jean will ever be free of the Scott of it all if she is marooned on X-Island. And I think Scott and Emma's ascension is a big reason why Jean's remained dead the past decade. That and GM/JQ's bias against her.

Jean has gifts that could be very valuable to groups like the Avengers and Sheild. And it would really be a new beginning for her.

Is not like i would hate to see a villainous jean, but i prefer her as an anti-hero; but i kind of agree with you, sometimes i think that jean is too goody for her own good.
You know, i found this on Tumblr, and i would love to see it in the comics:





http://abrahamsx2.tumblr.com/post/88...87/she-is-back

[cwatz]

Well, is not only bias, according to the internet, a lot of people read ANXM just for jean, even people that apparently wouldnt touch anything written by Bendis with 10-feet stick.
You know, to me, Xorn never came off as evil, just traumatized and crazy; after all, the initial plan was just sending the O5 back to their own time.

Is not like i would hate to see a villainous jean, but i prefer her as an anti-hero; but i kind of agree with you, sometimes i think that jean is too goody for her own good.
You know, i found this on Tumblr, and i would love to see it in the comics:

Just to clarify, she can be a bit too goody for sure, and it can be bothersome in a sense. I hate when characters go into crazy levels of morality at the expense of logic (Hank in No More Humans with the guys body is a good example). Its painful to see characters looking stupid like that. I also prefer when Jean has a bit of an edge to her, as most people seem to.

However there are cases where I find some of that purity to be sacred. The supportive side in something like 303(?) with Jubilee as one example. I also like the thought of say the schism, where Jean would be the perfect character to get beyond all the self absorbed BS and be the voice of reason to bring people back together.

In short I guess I want the best of it all. Enough edge to make things exciting or interesting, and prevent looking stupid due to morals. Yet at the same time, enough purity to be supportive or bring folks together, or the occasional selfless moment that makes a character easy to root for.

As for the Xorn thing, its probably not worth putting much thought into since BotA is practically getting retconned. The "well make sure your sacrifice is not in vain" seems to make it pretty clear mind control was not part of the plan initially as Xavier probably wouldn't spew a phrase like that if he lost a puppet.

[jutcher]

I don't think Jean chose villainy. Well, we will never see Jean of ANXM with that same personality that once we were accustomed. Firstly, our dear old Jean was shaped by Prof. Xavier since her adolescence, he taught her the true values ​​of humanity to do the good and the right thing, to put the interests of others ahead of her, to believe in forgiveness and love. This current Jean didn't live this and to make matters worse she saw everything that happened to her in the "past". its a bit hard to face.

The idea of Jean to join an Avengers team don't pleases me at all, I never really liked the Avengers too much, the history of the X-Men has always attracted me more, is good to follow superheroes that need not be just "saving the city" from surreal monsters every week, but also save humanity from things as bad as: prejudice and inequality, which is a cruel reality that we see happening in real life all the time. =_(

btw of course if she integrates to the Avengers, I will follow the comic just for her. Anyway, read some comic that has the Jean will always give me pleasure, provided it has a solid story. XD

[KurtW95]

I just looks back at the first issue of AvX and noticed a MAJOR continuity error. (And No, I'm not talking about the whole event that was a major error in it of itself.)



They're just acting like the cocoon thing never happened and the Dark Phoenix was Jean and not the PF before the retcon. Cap was there when they rescued her and when she woke up. And Logan should know too.

[Phoenix Egg]

I just looks back at the first issue of AvX and noticed a MAJOR continuity error. (And Jo, I'm not talking about the whole event that was a major error in it of itself.)



They're just acting like the cocoon thing never happened and the Dark Phoenix was Jean and not the PF before the retcon. Cap was there when they rescued her and Logan should know too.

Nobody involved in the creation of AvX has read the issue you're talking about.

[cwatz]

They're just acting like the cocoon thing never happened and the Dark Phoenix was Jean and not the PF before the retcon. Cap was there when they rescued her and Logan should know too.

It was probably quite intentional.
a) Give some quick, easy to digest background for new readers
b) Convoluted nature of the whole cocoon thing, not to mention the fact that everything is better if its just ignored and the "how" Jean returned is just forgotten. Lastly keeps DPS material more intact without trivializing the whole thing as a clone.

I just looks back at the first issue of AvX and noticed a MAJOR continuity error. (And Jo, I'm not talking about the whole event that was a major error in it of itself.)

Ya... AVX should be forgotten forever.

[KurtW95]

It was probably quite intentional.
a) Give some quick, easy to digest background for new readers
b) Convoluted nature of the whole cocoon thing, not to mention the fact that everything is better if its just ignored and the "how" Jean returned is just forgotten. Lastly keeps DPS material more intact without trivializing the whole thing as a clone.

Well yeah, I do agree that they should have kept the story intact, gone with Claremont's Shi'ar psychic lobotomy and her be repowered later on by Magneto. But the cocoon was the best way we could get her back at that time.

[dragonmp93]

Well then there is this versión of what happened:

[cwatz]

Well then there is this versión of what happened:=

The best version of phoenix lore imo.

[KurtW95]

Well then there is this versión of what happened:

I was never able to make complete sense of how that fit in.

[ariwl1]

Since Jean's last death you could be forgiven for thinking DPS was the last time she died, because that's pretty much hoe Marvel has presented it.

[dragonmp93]

I was never able to make complete sense of how that fit in.

Its quite simple actually; in this versión, the phoenix force is no more of a sentient being or at least a being than the force of the gravity or the magnetism; basically, she wasnt possesed, she just summoned the lifeforce of the universe, and thanks to the hellfire club, she couldnt control it and end up becoming an insane omnipotent omnicidal maniac.

Since Jean's last death you could be forgiven for thinking DPS was the last time she died, because that's pretty much hoe Marvel has presented it.

Yeah, given than basically almost if not all the adaptations have done something with the DPS, is easy to get confused.

[KurtW95]

Its quite simple actually; in this versión, the phoenix force is no more of a sentient being or at least a being than the force of the gravity or the magnetism; basically, she wasnt possesed, she just summoned the lifeforce of the universe, and thanks to the hellfire club, she couldnt control it and end up becoming an insane omnipotent omnicidal maniac.

But how does that explain the two characters; the one that was present in the DPS and the one in the coccoon. Also, the Jean in the coccoon didn't remember anything from the DPS.