Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

**ariwl1** · 06-15-2014, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by KurtW95

But how does that explain the two characters; the one that was present in the DPS and the one in the coccoon. Also, the Jean in the coccoon didn't remember anything from the DPS.

Simply, the editors didn't like the retcon. So they pretend it never happened.

**KurtW95** · 06-15-2014, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by ariwl1

Simply, the editors didn't like the retcon. So they pretend it never happened.

But there was an image of the cocoon in that scene on a later page. So it couldn't have been disregarded.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...sgt/PAGE13.jpg

**Peanutsinspace** · 06-15-2014, 01:02 AM

"The Phoenix burns away what doesn't work. It eats planets and stars. It talks to me. And if I get too close it... it replaces me." That was Jean explaining her relationship with the Phoenix in New X-Men. I think it was either Xavier or Hank she was talking to and I can't remember which issue it was. I'm sure someone will have the number though. But I think that's the closest we ever got to explaining the 'Jean in the bay and on the moon' thing that the retcon caused. To be honest, I don't even know if that explanation is really accepted or not.

**dragonmp93** · 06-15-2014, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by KurtW95

But how does that explain the two characters; the one that was present in the DPS and the one in the coccoon. Also, the Jean in the coccoon didn't remember anything from the DPS.

Oh, i apparently misunderstand you; no, the 4, well 3,(because the original doesnt count(maybe, im not sure)) versions are stand-alone explanations about what happened during the DPS; they dont work together or are part of one unifying explanation; the writers and editor just pick the versión they want and run with it, like in new x-men, the versión was that she and the phoenix are one interchangeable being or in AvX, the versión they used was that the phoenix possessed her and drove her insane.

**KurtW95** · 06-15-2014, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by dragonmp93

Oh, i apparently misunderstand you; no, the 4, well 3,(because the original doesnt count(maybe, im not sure)) versions are stand-alone explanations about what happened during the DPS; they dont work together or are part of one unifying explanation; the writers and editor just pick the versión they want and run with it, like in new x-men, the versión was that she and the phoenix are one interchangeable being or in AvX, the versión they used was that the phoenix possessed her and drove her insane.

But I thought in that scene from Classic X-Men #43, Claremont was trying to figure out a way leave the cocoon retcon while at the same time saying that it was her in the DPS. I just can't wrap my head around how that works.

**dragonmp93** · 06-15-2014, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by KurtW95

But I thought in that scene from Classic X-Men #43, Claremont was trying to figure out a way leave the cocoon retcon while at the same time saying that it was her in the DPS. I just can't wrap my head around how that works.

Well, is because those two explanations simply dont work together; one says that the phoenix is sentient force that saved jean's live by putting in a cocoon and taking her place, and the other says that the phoenix is a force no more sentient than magnetism that she summoned and couldnt control; and to be sincere, these two works as well with each other as with the explanation that say that the phoenix is sentient and drove her insane.
There is no try in making them work together, because they are contradictory with each other, and the whole thing is very confusing; i would say that before you end insane trying to make sense of them, just pick one or the current one.

**KurtW95** · 06-15-2014, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by dragonmp93

Well, is because those two explanations simply dont work together; one says that the phoenix is sentient force that saved jean's live by putting in a cocoon and taking her place, and the other says that the phoenix is a force no more sentient than magnetism that she summoned and couldnt control; and to be sincere, these two works as well with each other as with the explanation that say that the phoenix is sentient and drove her insane.
There is no try in making them work together, because they are contradictory with each other, and the whole thing is very confusing; i would say that before you end insane trying to make sense of them, just pick one or the current one.

Why don't we ask the man who brought her back in the first place. See what he thinks. He has an account on these forums. You can summon him by saying his name three times. So...

Kurt Busiek Kurt Busiek Kurt Busiek

**PwrdOn** · 06-15-2014, 10:16 AM

The Classic X-Men 43 backup is Jean at her good girl best, the white uniform really sells that purity and innocence bit.

**Jean Grey** · 06-15-2014, 10:26 AM

I think that as of right now, 'Bendis era', the cocoon plot was dropped and Jean was indeed 'possessed' by the Phoenix.

Every Marvel Now x-men title that has referenced the Phoenix and Jean, talks about it being a possession. And also Trial pretty much made Jean culprit of everything the Phoenix did while she had it.

Which I feel might be one of the reasons Marvel isn't bringing her back, they are already dealing with redeeming Cyclops for killing Xavier, I don't think they care about redeeming a woman for destroying a planet.

**Celestialbodies** · 06-15-2014, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Peanutsinspace

"The Phoenix burns away what doesn't work. It eats planets and stars. It talks to me. And if I get too close it... it replaces me." That was Jean explaining her relationship with the Phoenix in New X-Men. I think it was either Xavier or Hank she was talking to and I can't remember which issue it was. I'm sure someone will have the number though. But I think that's the closest we ever got to explaining the 'Jean in the bay and on the moon' thing that the retcon caused. To be honest, I don't even know if that explanation is really accepted or not.

NXM: 148

**R.E.B** · 06-15-2014, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by nx01a

This new piece of Alex Ross art has nothing on this recent beauty.

I have this poster hanging near my bookcase... It is a beauty.

**Celestialbodies** · 06-15-2014, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Celestialbodies

NXM: 148

And this makes that last bit about flying through space quite suspect:

**dragonmp93** · 06-15-2014, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Celestialbodies

And this makes that last bit about flying through space quite suspect:

Was she using the phoenix force there ?

**ariwl1** · 06-15-2014, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Celestialbodies

NXM: 148

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/...ps692f1706.jpg

I liked this concept of the Phoenix Force interpretation. Not that it's some godly force that can recreate the universe in its own image, but that it identifies when something is very clearly not working and discards it, getting rid of the problem and allowing more fruitful life to grow and develop on its own.

Originally Posted by dragonmp93

Was she using the phoenix force there ?

Nope. To be fair, I believe this is the only time ever that she was shown doing this.

**Bart** · 06-15-2014, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Celestialbodies

NXM: 148

And remember this is not meant to be a literal replacement. When the phoenix consciousness is fully unleashed the following issue it is still Jean, just more aware of her true nature and role.

It's also the same reason Dark BEast in the future was able to get phoenix powers by injecting himself with some of Jean's DNA. Which ties in with what dragonmp posted:

Originally Posted by dragonmp93

Well then there is this versión of what happened:

Thread: Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/The Phoenix Appreciation

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