Post Crisis Changes You Liked and Didn't

[Vordan]

I thought that was kind of cutesy, in line with some of the Pre-Crisis stuff that had the two as rivals, but it was a reminder to me about how boring the Supes/Lana stuff was in STAS where Superman had essentially no feelings left for Lana.

I accept Byrne's run for what it was. When I first read it, I didn't have much dissatisfaction, and got a lot of pleasure out of reading it. Any gripes I might've had comes from years after-the-fact, when I saw certain disappointing trends emerge within the Superman line. Basically, I see a lot of Post-Crisis Superman to be focusing on some unfortunate "less is more" philosophy, in that creators and editors were convinced by focusing more on Superman's limitations, people would find the character more interesting. So, we get stuff like "Clark is who I am, Superman is what I do," in order to ground the character. That in itself isn't such a bad thing, but it got taken to such extremes for certain writers to interpret Superman as a stupid hick. Seeing him interact with his Mom and Dad can be lovely and heartwarming, but it sort of got taken to the extreme in which he repeatedly had to go to them for advice because apparently a Superman who was taught early in life is less interesting than a guy who has to learn his lessons later and can't apply what he was taught in childhood into his adult years.

You can like multiple versions of the same character, for multiple different reasons, but in the end you're probably going to like one version more than the others. I generally like Post-Crisis Superman, but I think a lot of post-Byrne writers took some of Byrne's ideas and ran off the deep end and gave us a lot things I really dislike.

My thoughts exactly. I think it’s unfair to blame Byrne for what latter writers did, just like how the failings of the New 52 Supes aren’t something I blame Morrison for. But man was the Byrne Superman the seed for a lot of the modern day problems we face.

[Jim Kelly]

And I didn't say "too" or "strictly" realistic. I said "more" realistic, and it was.

Yeah, that was my own spin. Sorry for that.

[Jon Clark]

My thoughts exactly. I think it’s unfair to blame Byrne for what latter writers did, just like how the failings of the New 52 Supes aren’t something I blame Morrison for. But man was the Byrne Superman the seed for a lot of the modern day problems we face.

I can see blaming Byrne, for any of his ideas that started us down the road that led to those later writers.

If you had a problem with how Clark relatd to Krypton, then you have to think that maybe later writers wouldn't have gone that way if they weren't building off the whole scene where Superman found out his history and went "Interesting trivia, but nothing that matters to my life now"

Hate the "Clark is who I am, Superman is what I do approach"? Would it have happened if Byrne hadn't set up Clark as a regular Joe who came upon everything that made him Superman very late in life?

[Adekis]

I can see blaming Byrne, for any of his ideas that started us down the road that led to those later writers.

If you had a problem with how Clark relatd to Krypton, then you have to think that maybe later writers wouldn't have gone that way if they weren't building off the whole scene where Superman found out his history and went "Interesting trivia, but nothing that matters to my life now"

That one's tricky. I feel like that particular xenophobic vibe rarely got worse than that scene, and in general got better over time. In that regard, I'd be much more inclined to be upset at Byrne's writing than at other creators who came later, but partly the reason is that I thought later writers did better with Clark's relationship to Krypton than Byrne did.

[Jon Clark]

That one's tricky. I feel like that particular xenophobic vibe rarely got worse than that scene, and in general got better over time. In that regard, I'd be much more inclined to be upset at Byrne's writing than at other creators who came later, but partly the reason is that I thought later writers did better with Clark's relationship to Krypton than Byrne did.

I actually loved that scene, but for purely personal reasons.

And my point was that Byrne is responsible for the groundwork others built off- at least when the ideas were his own spin on Superman and not handed down from editorial.

[Kuwagaton]

I do think that the post Supergirl Saga creators manage to turn around a lot of things that weren't so good and improve on the good things. Probably the biggest downside to him leaving was losing the art, but then there were additions like Gammill and Perez so it's hard to say it was really a problem.

The change that bothered me most was Clark just up and leaving Smallville as soon as he found out about the rocket. It didn't fit, and I was fine with that being retconned later.

Is it considered a retcon if it's the same writer, though?

And his super-intellect is no longer a point of emphasis. So what does Superman/Clark have left?

Replacing super intelligence with actually just being a clever person might be one of my favorite changes, because super intelligence is a terrible story idea. Once introduced it makes Superman look less than extremely intelligent when it's taken away, even though it's just as much a gift as other powers. And not only are the stories being written by people who don't have "super" intelligence, but it compounds on successors. You might have a cool scene where Superman quickly masters everything he needs to become a perfect bare handed surgeon, but where does that leave the next writer? What about the can of ethical worms opened when you have him do that for one of his friends and then it's just never mentioned again? If Lex was not obsessed with Superman, they say he could do so much good. But if Superman is just as smart and far more capable, why doesn't he just do everything that Lex would have?

Lana got really, really put over a barrel by the whole Crisis. Poor Lana. Before Crisis, a successful co-anchor to Clark who I'm pretty sure was dating him at the time? Or at least had dated him very recently, post-Crisis, a lonesome woman defined by her unrequited love for a man who thinks of her as a sister! What a mess! And to think Byrne shipped her with Clark!

I can see this version of Lana really not being as funny to most people. I mostly dig Byrne's (unintentional?) humor but when it comes to both women and sexuality, his stories would go from hilariously awkward to what would seem like a note in his HR file. Not Toriyama bad or a real life risk like Berganza, but still. Who would have thought in the few years before him that they'd be reading a comic where Superman has a wet dream? With females, where Wolfman gave Lana's good qualities to Cat, Byrne had one as a bit of a loser and the other an aggressive drunk. Lois was a strong woman, but she also got spanked literally as a young teen by Luthor. His character Maggie was kind of the winner, actually, but then it's like all the bad that could have gone to her was dumped on Barda so it's kinda null.

[HeroVladimir93]

That one's tricky. I feel like that particular xenophobic vibe rarely got worse than that scene, and in general got better over time. In that regard, I'd be much more inclined to be upset at Byrne's writing than at other creators who came later, but partly the reason is that I thought later writers did better with Clark's relationship to Krypton than Byrne did.

I admit Byrne's decision to de-emphasize Krypton's importance in Superman's life didn't sit right with me, but my favorite origin story, Superman: Secret Origin, was also guilty of that same decision.

[Stanlos]

There was an edict for a long time after post crisis to simplify Superman and make him unique again which I liked and while Pre-Crisis Superman was my first Superman Post Crisis Superman was the version I loved.

Changes I liked:

1: Business Lex Luthor.

2: Lois Lane becoming more of a self efficient golden age style reporter it started in the Bronze Age but solidified in the Post Crisis Era.

3: Lois and Clark finally getting off the will they won't they pot and doing it.

4: Krypton I think the more alien Krypton emphasized the importance being raised on Earth had to developing Superman also the look of Kryptonians were cool IMO.

5: Jonathan and Martha I just love Clark having a place to go to be himself.

6: Speaking of which Clark being the real persona with a slightly bumbling Clark as a mask with the idealized man mask of Superman.

7: Kandor being a city of aliens love the concept of Kandor but think when it's Kryptonians it takes away from Superman.

8: The adding to the Super Family with Steel and Kon.

9: Phantom Zone being an alien prison I like a few Kryptonian villains like Zod and minions but prefer most to be non Kryptonian threats.

10: Linda Danvers, Kara is my idealized Supergirl but I loved Linda and wish she'd be brought back as Superwoman and the former Supergirl with it revealed she is Kara's adopted cousin.


Dislikes:

1: Clark not being Superboy in the Legion. I'm ok with Clark not being Superboy in Smallville but he should had traveled to the future and be him with the Legion like in the cartoon or something.

2: Batman and Superman's more antagonists relationship.

3: While eventually rectified Krypto and more importantly Kara missing from the mythos.

I liked that there were only two weaknesses (magic and the rare as bleep Kryptonite).

[phonogram12]

I admit Byrne's decision to de-emphasize Krypton's importance in Superman's life didn't sit right with me, but my favorite origin story, Superman: Secret Origin, was also guilty of that same decision.

I think this is one of the reasons why I like Superman Birthright the most as an origin. It's pretty respectful to everything I consider important aspects of the Superman mythos.

[superduperman]

I see a lot of the changes as being over corrections to the SA. Like the birthing matrix. Did he really HAVE to be "born" on Earth? Isn't that a bit of overkill? We get it. You don't want him exclaiming "Great Krypton!" all the time but it doesn't seem necessary to remove any and all connections to Krypton just to bring that about. Having him discover where he came from late in life seems to do that just fine. I like the way the Earth 2 Superman handled it. He found out later in life too but it didn't change the way he saw himself. He just built statues to his birth parents in his citadel and moved on with his life. And you can make Krypton alien without making it this dystopia no one would want to live.

[Vordan]

I see a lot of the changes as being over corrections to the SA. Like the birthing matrix. Did he really HAVE to be "born" on Earth? Isn't that a bit of overkill? We get it. You don't want him exclaiming "Great Krypton!" all the time but it doesn't seem necessary to remove any and all connections to Krypton just to bring that about. Having him discover where he came from late in life seems to do that just fine. I like the way the Earth 2 Superman handled it. He found out later in life too but it didn't change the way he saw himself. He just built statues to his birth parents in his citadel and moved on with his life. And you can make Krypton alien without making it this dystopia no one would want to live.

From what I recall, the birthing matrix came from Byrne wanting Supes to be a “natural-born” American citizen rather than (technically) an illegal immigrant.

Fwiw I do like the Byrne Krypton. It’s very “alien” and I enjoyed that.

[Jon Clark]

I see a lot of the changes as being over corrections to the SA. Like the birthing matrix. Did he really HAVE to be "born" on Earth? Isn't that a bit of overkill? We get it. You don't want him exclaiming "Great Krypton!" all the time but it doesn't seem necessary to remove any and all connections to Krypton just to bring that about. Having him discover where he came from late in life seems to do that just fine. I like the way the Earth 2 Superman handled it. He found out later in life too but it didn't change the way he saw himself. He just built statues to his birth parents in his citadel and moved on with his life. And you can make Krypton alien without making it this dystopia no one would want to live.

I liked the birthing matrix largely because it allowed for the idea that Clark was believed to be Jonathan and Martha's biological child.

As for the separation from Krypton it caused, one of Byrne's original ideas had been to send a pregnant Lara to Earth and then have her die of kryptonite poisoning. It would have been a way of demonstrating the dangers of kryptonite, according to Byrne. I think that might have been a bit more interesting. It would have allowed for Lara to interact with the Kents, to pass on through them information abut Krypton, and would have added a bit of personal pathos to Clark's origin.