Kevin Smith Sheds Light on Zack Snyder's Planned Justice League Trilogy

[Charmed]

Can't help but think he'd be the PERFECT director of any Justice League knock off... Supreme Power or Authority or whatever. If it was anything other than the actual Justice League, I think he'd be fine.

I think he'd kill it directing the action for a DBZ movie. Man of Steel's action scenes still hold up for me.

[Scott Taylor]

I still think Zack Snyder definitely has a pretty grand vision for the films he produces...it's just the execution and even the style that just doesn't work.

Yah true. He is more of a vision guy, I think. But he could use someone who does a little better at the execution and give him advice on making the plots simpler and more coherent.

[tkitna]

But he still watches it. BvS is still talked about. Snyder is still talked about. DC is still talked about.

For all the wrong reasons though.

[C_Miller]

I think the frustrating thing for me is that people defending the DC movies have frequently told me that I don't understand storytelling because Superman is supposed to be dark and morose because it's the character arc and it's about him becoming the beacon of light. This is where I call bullshit now. It looks like the universe wouldn't have been lightened up until the end of the fifth movie. I as a viewer don't have the time or patience for a five movie arc to get a character to get into character. Every Marvel movie has the character acting like themselves by act 3 at the latest. And this isn't just a Marvel/DC thing, Wonder Woman did it too in her movie.

So glad Snyder is no longer the creative force on these films.

[XPac]

I think he'd kill it directing the action for a DBZ movie. Man of Steel's action scenes still hold up for me.

I actually thought Man of Steel was a good movie. I didn't necessarily think it was a good SUPERMAN movie, but I thought it was a good movie.

Batman vs Superman and Justice League were more flawed, but Man of Steel worked on a lot of levels.

[kingaliencracker]

I'm in no way a fan of Synder's Objectivist Superfriends, but I also think they should have put the JL flick on hold. The Frankenstein'd movie we got was insulting and whatever Snyder's vision was, would have been a more competent flick. BvS is not a good movie but it is nowhere near as bad as JL ended up being.

The whole process was a mess right after Man of Steel. While I enjoyed that film, based on its substantial drop at the box office following its opening weekend on top of its middling reviews, WB should have found someone else to helm its film universe. But they got impatient and allowed Snyder to continue, not because he was necessarily good but because he was quick and they figured that shoehorning Batman into a movie would earn it a billion dollars regardless of how good it was (how wrong they were). When it became clear to WB after previewing Justice League that they made a mistake (which should have happened after Man of Steel and certainly after Batman v. Superman), they panicked and fired him, bringing in someone who tonally had a completely different style in Whedon to essentially churn out a film that was even more awful because it was too light to be in tone with what Snyder was establishing and too dark to be in tone with what Whedon had accomplished in his Avengers films. Not to mention that in between all of this, WB released an equally awful Suicide Squad movie - a movie so bad that they managed to screw up the freaking Joker!

It's just so disappointing because Henry Cavill was a very good Superman, and Ben Affleck could have been a very good Batman. Having said that, Wonder Woman and Aquaman were amazing, and I have high hopes for Shazam. But it's just very unfortunate that we're unlikely to have a cohesive DC film universe akin to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

My feeling is that the Whedon stuff is the corny banter crap that is his stock-in-trade. I thought the Whedon additions stuck out like a sore thumb, and what the hell was with the clumsy shoehorning in of that Russian family? I would have much preferred Zach Snyder's complete Justice League movie. As far as the future, in the Kevin Smith video, he described JL2 as the Empire Strikes Back movie where it's darker and the heroes lose, and then in JL3, they would rally and win the day.

The whole idea of Darkseid is that he is an entity that destroys hope. This is only my speculation, but maybe the fact that the Snyder movies were "joyless" could have been part of the reason why Darkseid was able to triumph. It was a commentary on the times we live in. Then, after a crushing defeat in JL2, the Justice League (and Superman) digs down and finds that the key to defeating Darkseid is by finding a sense of hope within themselves that they had let atrophy. Then, after defeating Darkseid, they lead the Earth as hopeful figures and heroes and civilians alike rally together and begin the rebuilding process, creating a new, more hopeful outlook on Earth as it faces the future.

That could be why Snyder said that Superman had a 5-movie character arc: Superman goes from being a product of a cynical, joyless world to the beacon of hope that leads a battered, but not broken Earth to a brighter future. Something like that.

Whedon to me is such a one trick pony. That one trick being Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The worst thing he ever did was decide "hmm when I make Avengers I need it a way to make all the goofy comic book exposition to not go overboard, got it, I'll overload my witty Buffy speak dialogue over all of it so people will laugh through it and not realize they are getting an implausible info dump". Now every Marvel film tries to do that.

[Jabare]

Kevin Smith is starting to blow a lot of his movie review credibility

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Yah true. He is more of a vision guy, I think. But he could use someone who does a little better at the execution and give him advice on making the plots simpler and more coherent.

He's not a bad director for these movies. But someone else should have been involved in the actual conception of the ideas and the writing. Oh and someone else should have edited them as well. Snyder's not the guy you give the keys to the kingdom too and that's the problem.

Feige is a great concept guy and getting the actual vision and direction down. He doesn't direct the films though and allows the directors artistic style to come through. Snyder probably gave us the best visual representation of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman ever. He gave us some really strong action scenes. He never should have been responsible for the actual storylines of these movies. He's too much of a fanboy and he wants to ape stories that are subverting tropes. It's why his first Superman film was similar to Exhile where he kills Zod. That film was a subversion of tropes. It's why BvS was a mix of Death of Superman and the The Dark Knight Returns. Those were subversions of the tropes (Superman always wins, here he doesnt. Batman is an old jaded man who goes to the extreme).

You need to establish the baseline tropes. Why were Wonder Woman and Aquaman so good? They started with the baseline concept of the character and established all the core components of them. Snyder would have done some story where Black Manta cuts off Arthur's arm and kills his son and the rest of the film is a gritty revenge piece with Aquman with a hook arm going around brutalizing people to get to Manta. Which totally could be a thing in a third or fourth film when we understand how he's supposed to be. However, it's not how you should start out.

[Alan2099]

But he still watches it. BvS is still talked about. Snyder is still talked about. DC is still talked about.

Most of Marvel's movies and directors aren't talked about. Instead, people just say they're waiting for the next one. Go figure.

Personally, I think "Marvel Movie was great! I can't wait to see the next one!" comes off a lot better than "You know that DC movie, god it sucked."

Being talked about isn't always a good thing.

As opposed to letting Josh Whedon kill the franchise instead? They clearly lost going in that direction, might as well have stayed the course. At least then those of us who did like BvS and MoS would be happy. We're worth it!

Josh didn't kill the franchise. He came across the franchise lying there in a an alley bleeding to death and tried to save it. The damage had already been done, he just wasn't able to save it.

I still think Zack Snyder definitely has a pretty grand vision for the films he produces...it's just the execution and even the style that just doesn't work.

He's got a grand vision, it's just a grand vision that's suited for a big superhero universe. His Batman scenes were pretty decent (although i also wonder how much of that was purely him and how much of it was Ben) but his Superman hit the ground with a dead thud and he's only been getting worse.

[Kirby101]

I don't get the Whedon bashing. Avengers was wonderful. The public loved it when it came out, and so did this forum. They really brought all those characters together in a way that work. Which was not an easy task. I can still stop and watch that movie when it's on. It is still fun.

How did Whedon kill the franchise?

And Whedon is behind Agents of Shield, the best superhero show on TV right now.

Haters gotta hate, but comparing Avengers to Justice League and we see the difference between success and failure.

[Osiris-Rex]

I dont like how much hate Snyder gets. I mean I'm no fan of his DCEU movies but I did love 300 and Dawn of the dead. Watchmen wasnt the greatest moive but given the monumental task that movie would be to do right I think he did pretty good. Anyway I dont think Snyder should be devalued as a director, just keep him away from Superman or anything requiring a lighter tone

Zack Snyder is a good example of the Peter Principle. Someone getting promoted to the level of incompetence. They are good in a smaller role but given too much responsibility they fail miserably.

I'm in no way a fan of Synder's Objectivist Superfriends, but I also think they should have put the JL flick on hold. The Frankenstein'd movie we got was insulting and whatever Snyder's vision was, would have been a more competent flick. BvS is not a good movie but it is nowhere near as bad as JL ended up being.

If the release of Justice League had been delayed the people in upper management wouldn't have gotten their year end bonuses.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Yikes. Fighting the same villain for THREE movies? Yes, there are lots of colorful Kirby characters from Apokolips, but sheesh...that's just too much. There's plenty of great non-Batman DC villains to use. Building up to the Injustice League is something I am actually looking forward to.

The whole problem is where do they go from there? Snyder was setting up the world to fit his storyline alone which is hard to build a franchise of films off of which was WB's whole goal. Plus once you pull the "ruined earth" card it is hard to come back from that. That premise in itself is usually the death nail when it comes to comics as every comic universe that peters out usually end with the decimated Earth troupe.

Yeah, it's really no way to have a cinematic universe where all these other characters are having their solo adventures in different parts of the globe. Also, with all those deaths, you know some named, important supporting character would bite it. Martha, Alfred, maybe Aquaman's father...someone so stakes are raised. Given the use of Flash and time travel, I'd have to think they'd actually end the trilogy with making it so it never happens.

The whole idea of Darkseid is that he is an entity that destroys hope. This is only my speculation, but maybe the fact that the Snyder movies were "joyless" could have been part of the reason why Darkseid was able to triumph. It was a commentary on the times we live in. Then, after a crushing defeat in JL2, the Justice League (and Superman) digs down and finds that the key to defeating Darkseid is by finding a sense of hope within themselves that they had let atrophy. Then, after defeating Darkseid, they lead the Earth as hopeful figures and heroes and civilians alike rally together and begin the rebuilding process, creating a new, more hopeful outlook on Earth as it faces the future.

That could be why Snyder said that Superman had a 5-movie character arc: Superman goes from being a product of a cynical, joyless world to the beacon of hope that leads a battered, but not broken Earth to a brighter future. Something like that.

Personally, that's far too many movies for giving me the fully realized Superman and Justice League I want. You can still have a universe threatening villain and huge stakes while Superman has his trademark optimism and serves as a beacon of hope.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Yikes. Fighting the same villain for THREE movies? Yes, there are lots of colorful Kirby characters from Apokolips, but sheesh...that's just too much. There's plenty of great non-Batman DC villains to use. Building up to the Injustice League is something I am actually looking forward to.



Yeah, it's really no way to have a cinematic universe where all these other characters are having their solo adventures in different parts of the globe. Also, with all those deaths, you know some named, important supporting character would bite it. Martha, Alfred, maybe Aquaman's father...someone so stakes are raised. Given the use of Flash and time travel, I'd have to think they'd actually end the trilogy with making it so it never happens.



Personally, that's far too many movies for giving me the fully realized Superman and Justice League I want. You can still have a universe threatening villain and huge stakes while Superman has his trademark optimism and serves as a beacon of hope.

The scene at the end of Justice League where Luthor meets Deathstroke was a Zach Snyder scene, so the next 2 JL movies would have involved the Injustice Gang/League/Legion of Doom if Snyder had stayed on, so the next 2 JL movies would not just have been the New Gods characters.

As for Superman, I was ok with following Snyder's idea for 5 movies because it gives Superman a character arc -- something he's never had before -- and we get to witness the process whereby he becomes the beacon of hope rather than having him be the fully-formed Superman from the first movie with nowhere to go.

Superman's arc was one of the more interesting character pieces of his proposed series of movies to me. I was really excited about the idea of watching that character evolution rather than always coming in after it had already happened.

[KabutoRyder]

And Whedon is behind Agents of Shield, the best superhero show on TV right now.

Not entirely true there buddy