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  1. #376
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yep. Batman seducing her because he was just that awesome is what everyone remembers.

    Timm and co. have said they didn’t really “get” Diana and it showed. They didn’t do anything with her mythos.
    I think it's telling that the thing about DCAU Wonder Woman that gets brought up the most at panels is the Batman relationship.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's telling that the thing about DCAU Wonder Woman that gets brought up the most at panels is the Batman relationship.
    It was the only interesting thing about her.

  3. #378
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's telling that the thing about DCAU Wonder Woman that gets brought up the most at panels is the Batman relationship.
    I'm going to try not to drown this thread in Haterade, so I'll just say I believe a large chunk of fans see the DCAU from the lens of Batman, so they see that as the most pertinent "character development" for Wonder Woman.

  4. #379
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I'm going to try not to drown this thread in Haterade, so I'll just say I believe a large chunk of fans see the DCAU from the lens of Batman, so they see that as the most pertinent "character development" for Wonder Woman.
    Heh wasn’t just the fans. The creators clearly favored Batman over the rest, and to be fair he was the foundation for the DCAU. In terms of importance it was clearly Batman > Superman > Everyone Else. It’s just unfortunate that such a formative show for so many people did so little with WW. All anyone cared about was shipping her with Bats. I honestly don’t remember her getting an arc in any meaningful way, which most of the rest got.

  5. #380
    Fantastic Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Even when we overlook Diana, there really wasn't a single aspect of her mythos except maybe Steve and Circe that was done justice on that show.
    I also liked their take on Giganta. Honestly, as bad as DCAU was for Diana, at least they had enough sense to not have her villains get beaten by Batman. Which is more than I can say for most of the comics.

    They claim that the lasso would easily solve mysteries yet allowed Martian Manhunter use his mind reading power. Does that make any sense?
    Kinda? The lasso would've been a real headache for the Justice Lords and the Thanagarian invasion arcs.

  6. #381

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Even when we overlook Diana, there really wasn't a single aspect of her mythos except maybe Steve and Circe that was done justice on that show.
    Personally, I don't think Circe came across that great either.
    They made someone who is supposed to be one of Diana's deadliest enemies into a goofy comedy character. She owes money to Medusa, that Looney Tunes bit she has with Zatanna, giving up her grudge because Batman sings a song. They made her a joke, which honestly makes the fact she humiliates Diana even worse.

    God I hated that episode.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  7. #382
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    I also liked their take on Giganta. Honestly, as bad as DCAU was for Diana, at least they had enough sense to not have her villains get beaten by Batman. Which is more than I can say for most of the comics.
    But you couldn't tell they were her villains at all in the series. Wonder Woman herself had no real villains other than Circe (joke villain), Ares (who admittedly wasn't awful), and Aresia (an original character). Giganta, Cheetah, Dr. Cyber, Angle Man... none of them had any sort of personal connection with Wonder Woman and were rarely even seen with each other.

    And also the "you wouldn't hit a girl" line from Giganta was atrocious. I really hated that moment. Giganta as a character was never really taken seriously, either. She was just a sort of ditzy dumbass who could grow and flirted with the Flash, instead of a badass behemoth. I'll take even Superfriends Giganta any day over JLU.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    But you couldn't tell they were her villains at all in the series. Wonder Woman herself had no real villains other than Circe (joke villain), Ares (who admittedly wasn't awful), and Aresia (an original character). Giganta, Cheetah, Dr. Cyber, Angle Man... none of them had any sort of personal connection with Wonder Woman and were rarely even seen with each other.

    And also the "you wouldn't hit a girl" line from Giganta was atrocious. I really hated that moment. Giganta as a character was never really taken seriously, either. She was just a sort of ditzy dumbass who could grow and flirted with the Flash, instead of a badass behemoth. I'll take even Superfriends Giganta any day over JLU.
    Cheetah almost got it real bad. If what I heard is true, she was originally supposed to be killed off in the "Injustice for All" episode when Solomon Grundy got a hold of her, and it was only through a production error of showing her in a paddy wagon at the conclusion that she got to live to appear in future episodes. Though it's been so long since I read that, I forgot what the source of that info was, so take with a grain of salt.

    While I adore the DCAU Justice League era and it was a important part of my college years, I feel "Batman: Brave and The Bold" did more justice for Wonder Woman foes despite their short time in the final season.

  9. #384
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    JLU Giganta had no real connection to Wonder Woman other than maybe some prior off-screen run-ins. She was once an ordinary ape that Grodd turned into a human who could grow into a giant, so in a way she's more Flash villain than WW (and in fact, that's probably why she crushed on Flash). As far as being a Wonder Woman-specific enemy, her rivalry had even less depth than Bloodlines, which didn't have a lot in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    Kinda? The lasso would've been a real headache for the Justice Lords and the Thanagarian invasion arcs.
    That's cheating. When you borrow a licensed character, you should fit the story to the character, not trim down the character to fit your story. They took away Wonder Woman's lasso powers just to make it easier to tell the story they had in mind. I guess they did it to WW because they didn't think WW fans were numerous enough for the annoyance to be significant. I mean, it's not like they ever thought, "Hey, let's get rid of Batman's detective background for this episode so that we can make the other team members look clever." It was better done in Justice League: Doom when WW used her lasso on the Royal Flush Gang and there was nothing to gain because they knew nothing, or (going back to Giganta) MM tried to read her mind and then Grodd's contingency plan scrambled her brain.

    To be fair, they did bring her lasso powers and ambassador role into the series, but it should've been there day one.

  10. #385
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Diana's enemies have always been treated even worse then her. When she got that collection of out-of-continuity stories series, 9/10 times they'd feature a Batman villain instead of a Wonder Woman one.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I honestly don’t remember her getting an arc in any meaningful way, which most of the rest got.
    They did something with Paradise Island and Queen Hippolyta. I don't recall exactly what it was. I think they created a renegade Amazon or something. They didn't handle WW mythos well, at all.

  12. #387
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    They did something with Paradise Island and Queen Hippolyta. I don't recall exactly what it was. I think they created a renegade Amazon or something. They didn't handle WW mythos well, at all.
    I know the one you’re talking about, Arisa or whatever her name was trying to kill all men. But Diana herself didn’t really go through an arc at all in the DCAU. Contrast DCAU WW with :
    1. Batman - Stared out as a dark but still relatively well adjusted guy who did legitimately want to rehabilitate his foes and eventually descended into a complete a****** who had alienated every member of the Batfamily and was dying alone in his mansion until Terry showed up and taught Bruce the importance of trust.
    2. Superman - Started out as your fairly typical bland Byrne-era Superman who got his reputation destroyed by Darkseid, struggled with anger and resentment issues after the public turned on him and his government was revealed to be preparing ways to take him out if he went rogue again, saw a version of himself who DID go rogue and was tempted to make the same choice but overcame that temptation and recaptured some of his old optimism.

    I didn’t necessarily LIKE everything the DCAU did with Batman and Superman but those two had strong character arcs that were at the core of the show. Diana got nothing near as what those two did.

  13. #388
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    They did something with Paradise Island and Queen Hippolyta. I don't recall exactly what it was. I think they created a renegade Amazon or something. They didn't handle WW mythos well, at all.
    The episode "Paradise Lost" had some solid ideas for sure. I mean, WW saving the entire island but getting banished for breaking Themyscira's cardinal rule? That's some powerful stuff there. It's just too bad that it was a great moment buried in an otherwise-mediocre episode, and few fans reacted strongly to it (and it didn't help that pretty much every action scene was poor). The arc does get resolved a few seasons later, but the banishment scene was the high point and the conclusion was also a bit underwhelming and not one I've heard a lot of fans rave about over the past decade and a half.

  14. #389
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I know the one you’re talking about, Arisa or whatever her name was trying to kill all men. But Diana herself didn’t really go through an arc at all in the DCAU. Contrast DCAU WW with :
    1. Batman - Stared out as a dark but still relatively well adjusted guy who did legitimately want to rehabilitate his foes and eventually descended into a complete a****** who had alienated every member of the Batfamily and was dying alone in his mansion until Terry showed up and taught Bruce the importance of trust.
    2. Superman - Started out as your fairly typical bland Byrne-era Superman who got his reputation destroyed by Darkseid, struggled with anger and resentment issues after the public turned on him and his government was revealed to be preparing ways to take him out if he went rogue again, saw a version of himself who DID go rogue and was tempted to make the same choice but overcame that temptation and recaptured some of his old optimism.

    I didn’t necessarily LIKE everything the DCAU did with Batman and Superman but those two had strong character arcs that were at the core of the show. Diana got nothing near as what those two did.
    Yeah, ok, but a big part of that is that Superman had his own series and Batman had TWO series of his own. The bulk of that character development wasn't in JL. so it's not a fair comparison.

  15. #390

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