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  1. #196
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Does anyone else think the voice acting seems kind of...flat here? I've noticed that in a lot of the snippets for the new DTVs, everyone sounds kind of monotonous. The voice acting in the animated projects recently, barring YJ, sounds kind if lethargic compared to the old DCAU stuff. Andrea Romano isn't involved any more, is she?

    Still looking forward to Dawson as Diana, if there are any problems I'm going to think it's more the voice direction than her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Now that I think about it, the Young Justice cartoon hasn't really used many Wondie villains despite drawing from all over the DCU.
    They have Devastation in it for some reason, and she doesn't seem to resemble her comic book self either.

    I remember being very disappointed in that episode where the five villainous spell casters separated the kids from the adults, and Circe didn't even make a cameo. But the show has been hit or miss for me with villains in general. The likes of Manta and Cheshire are great, but the Bat-Villains kind of sucked.

  2. #197
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm very in. Really like how its going to be centered around classic villains not oft used in the comics for some time now.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  3. #198
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Giganta was with the Secret Society in the DCAU. She was also Grodd's lover.

    Giganta has appeared on:


    Challenge of the Super Friends
    Legends of the Super Heroes
    Super Friends 80s Shorts(2 different episodes)
    Justice League
    Justice League Unlimited
    Batman: The Brave & the Bold
    Superman & Batman: Public Enemies
    DC Universe Online
    DC Nation(Short)
    Gods & Monsters
    Lego Batman 3
    DC Superhero Girls
    DC Legends
    Currently Reading:Batman & The Outsiders, Doomsday Clock, Female Furies, Freedom Fighters, Hawkman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  4. #199
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I can't wait to see these bad ladies get some action...with the trend of making female villains "not that bad", it will be nice to see some unrepentant "rhymes with riches" to challenge the heroine.
    I'd enjoy that. While female villains definitely do bear the greater brunt of being turned anti-hero or even just being watered down, I'm really kinda tired of the "sympathetic villain" (which isn't the same as the "not that bad villain," I admit). When I first saw these done, they were interesting. But now it seems like every new villain has a sympathetic side or a tragic backstory, and frankly, I'm just done with it. It's as boring as the mustache twirler to me now. Though not suited to Wonder Woman, for some of the street level heroes, I really do kinda miss the "I'm in for the money" type criminals who just want to steal (or kill, if necessary) for wealth. Money, revenge, and power are typically good motives. Revenge sorta ties into the sympathetic villain too much too often for me. Money and power still work.

    Dos anyone think non-death-stakes could work for Diana? I'm very fond of non-murderous crimes being addressed by Batman or Green Arrow, though some find them too low-stakes. But Diana isn't typically an investigator, and humans can't really compete power-wise. So, are battles where no lives at stake too small? What about those with only a few lives at stake? Does it need to be dozens? Hundreds?

  5. #200
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I've missed a number of the new Superhero Girls episodes, which of Diana's rogues showed up so far?
    Cheetah, Giganta, and Ares were all in the old cartoon. Eris appeared in one of the tie-in comics.

    In the new series, Giganta is part of the main recurring group of baddies with Harley, Ivy, Star Sapphire, etc., and Cheetah was set up as one of the big bads.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'd enjoy that. While female villains definitely do bear the greater brunt of being turned anti-hero or even just being watered down, I'm really kinda tired of the "sympathetic villain" (which isn't the same as the "not that bad villain," I admit). When I first saw these done, they were interesting. But now it seems like every new villain has a sympathetic side or a tragic backstory, and frankly, I'm just done with it. It's as boring as the mustache twirler to me now. Though not suited to Wonder Woman, for some of the street level heroes, I really do kinda miss the "I'm in for the money" type criminals who just want to steal (or kill, if necessary) for wealth. Money, revenge, and power are typically good motives. Revenge sorta ties into the sympathetic villain too much too often for me. Money and power still work.

    Dos anyone think non-death-stakes could work for Diana? I'm very fond of non-murderous crimes being addressed by Batman or Green Arrow, though some find them too low-stakes. But Diana isn't typically an investigator, and humans can't really compete power-wise. So, are battles where no lives at stake too small? What about those with only a few lives at stake? Does it need to be dozens? Hundreds?
    I've always though Blue Snowman's first appearance could use a modernization. She started off extorting farmers, which in a modern setting could be her taking advantage of people "lower" than someone like herself who uses high tech machines. Byrna being a machinist who specializes in robotics can keep her as a physical threat to Wonder Woman the same way Lex often dons some sort of super suit to physically challenge Superman, as well as make her a valuable asset to the world of supervillainy. I feel that adapting and modernizing Blue Snowman's first appearance, lives would be at stake (especially if she starts with a poorer nation), but not in the same way as a villain having to have a kill count in the double digits to be effective.

    Also, I kind of agree with you on the sympathic villain...while it and the "not that bad" style of villain are not mutually exclusive. It does somewhat tie hand in hand. One thing I liked about Dr Poison's portrayal in the Wonder Woman movie, she seemed to be more amoral and wrapped up into her work than anything.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    I think the Origin won't be dwelled on too much. Just setting a backdrop to how this version of Diana left Paradise Island. Interestingly to modernize it and not keep it during one of the World Wars (so Diana's supporting cast can still be used in the present day) Steve was being attacked by a Parademon which makes me wonder how that came about. However I believe the meat and potatoes of THIS movie will be Villainy Inc. taking a war to Themyscira and transitioning Vanessa into a weapon, thus going after Wonder Woman and all she loves specifically.

    I can't wait to see these bad ladies get some action...with the trend of making female villains "not that bad", it will be nice to see some unrepentant "rhymes with riches" to challenge the heroine.
    There are plenty of such female villains still around. And it isn't only just female ones who are made "not that bad".

  8. #203
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Does anyone else think the voice acting seems kind of...flat here? I've noticed that in a lot of the snippets for the new DTVs, everyone sounds kind of monotonous. The voice acting in the animated projects recently, barring YJ, sounds kind if lethargic compared to the old DCAU stuff. Andrea Romano isn't involved any more, is she?
    I think Romano's last movie was Thrones of Altantis or something close to when that was released. I think the problem with the voice acting is just how some of the lines are cut into the trailer. Wes Gleason has been voice directing all the recent stuff.

    It's funny you mention YJ since a lot of people have been complaining about the voice acting for the current season.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    There are plenty of such female villains still around. And it isn't only just female ones who are made "not that bad".
    Yeah there are plenty of them if you broaden the net to characters who are more obscure, but you'd be kidding if you really thought someone like Rampage or Silver Banshee is on the same level as Poison Ivy, Killer Frost,....or even Livewire. Popularity definitely makes it easier to make these characters less heinous (though I believe they've made Livewire bad again, I'll have to check). There are less Mr. Freeze's in the pool of popular male villains than there are Harley's in popular female baddies.

  10. #205
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    I'm the one who she's responding to about the villains

  11. #206
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Romano's last movie was Thrones of Altantis or something close to when that was released. I think the problem with the voice acting is just how some of the lines are cut into the trailer. Wes Gleason has been voice directing all the recent stuff.

    It's funny you mention YJ since a lot of people have been complaining about the voice acting for the current season.
    I remember it being fine in the previous seasons, but I have noticed a few complaints for the current one.

    Hopefully you are right and that it's how the scenes are cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Yeah there are plenty of them if you broaden the net to characters who are more obscure, but you'd be kidding if you really thought someone like Rampage or Silver Banshee is on the same level as Poison Ivy, Killer Frost,....or even Livewire. Popularity definitely makes it easier to make these characters less heinous (though I believe they've made Livewire bad again, I'll have to check). There are less Mr. Freeze's in the pool of popular male villains than there are Harley's in popular female baddies.
    I think the current iterations of Cheetah, Dr. Cyber and Cale are more in line with Mr. Freeze and Two-Face in terms of being sympathetic to an extent, at least in their turn to villainy. Cale may eventually be redeemed due to her daughter, but I think the former two (especially Cheetah) are set on a path that would organically make them as bad or worse than Freeze. Which is still pretty rare for female villains.
    I can't think of any major male villains that are getting the Ivy treatment. Hell, people freaked out when King seemingly had her kill a bunch of mob henchmen with her vines when the actively threatened her, which was absolutely ludicrous.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Yeah there are plenty of them if you broaden the net to characters who are more obscure, but you'd be kidding if you really thought someone like Rampage or Silver Banshee is on the same level as Poison Ivy, Killer Frost,....or even Livewire. Popularity definitely makes it easier to make these characters less heinous (though I believe they've made Livewire bad again, I'll have to check). There are less Mr. Freeze's in the pool of popular male villains than there are Harley's in popular female baddies.
    My point is that there are still plenty of unrepentantly evil female villains. Maybe they aren't as popular, but they're there and as I said, it isn't even limited to female villains. They've made Deadshot, Catman, Atomic Skull and even Ares into heroes/sympathetic villains.

    And yeah, Livewire's a villain again. And the heroic Killer Frost is literally a different character from the past two versions that existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I remember it being fine in the previous seasons, but I have noticed a few complaints for the current one.

    Hopefully you are right and that it's how the scenes are cut.



    I think the current iterations of Cheetah, Dr. Cyber and Cale are more in line with Mr. Freeze and Two-Face in terms of being sympathetic to an extent, at least in their turn to villainy. Cale may eventually be redeemed due to her daughter, but I think the former two (especially Cheetah) are set on a path that would organically make them as bad or worse than Freeze. Which is still pretty rare for female villains.
    I can't think of any major male villains that are getting the Ivy treatment. Hell, people freaked out when King seemingly had her kill a bunch of mob henchmen with her vines when the actively threatened her, which was absolutely ludicrous.
    Magneto's been getting that treatment since Chris Claremont wrote the X-Men.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-09-2019 at 02:58 PM.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    My point is that there are still plenty of unrepentantly evil female villains. Their popularity is irrelevant and as I said, it isn't even limited to female villains. They've made Deadshot, Catman, Atomic Skull and even Ares into heroes/sympathetic villains.
    And my point was that more of the female villains who are unrepentant need more notoriety. I mean yeah we could say there's plenty of bad to the bone female villains in DC when we go out of our way to list villains like Tiger Moth, Silken Spider and Dragon Fly, but when we have to go down the list to them it's like "really?"

  14. #209
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Magneto's been getting that treatment since Chris Claremont wrote the X-Men.
    Anybody more recent and specifically on the DC side of the fence?
    And it's not like there aren't plenty of notable male villains to spare when one of them is reformed or give more moral grayness. We are lacking in unrepentent female villains of notoriety. Ivy was the major example we had, especially in Gotham where she is arguably the most powerful villain. I'm not even saying she should be any more evil than the male villains or not have her share of Pet the Dog moments, but downplaying her darker tendencies and even erasing them from canon is a step too far.

    I don't recognize an Ivy who feels guilty over believing she killed four dudes who were willing to kill her first and drew guns. Yeah, she has genuine love for Harley (which she can express in unhealthy and abusive ways) and a soft spot for kids, but no way would she be such a wuss. Though on the other end of the spectrum, I don't recognize that one issue of Detective where she made snuff films. That was OTT even for Dini's Ivy.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 08-09-2019 at 03:59 PM.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Anybody more recent and specifically on the DC side of the fence?
    And it's not like there aren't plenty of notable male villains to spare when one of them is reformed or give more moral grayness. We are lacking in unrepentent female villains of notoriety. Ivy was the major example we had, especially in Gotham where she is arguably the most powerful villain. I'm not even saying she should be any more evil than the male villains or not have her share of Pet the Dog moments, but downplaying her darker tendencies and even erasing them from canon is a step too far.

    I don't recognize an Ivy who feels guilty over believing she killed four dudes who were willing to kill her first and drew guns. Yeah, she has genuine love for Harley (which she can express in unhealthy and abusive ways) and a soft spot for kids, but no way would she be such a wuss. Though on the other end of the spectrum, I don't recognize that one issue of Detective where she made snuff films. That was OTT even for Dini's Ivy.
    Atomic Skull has recently reformed. There's also Ares himself in the Wonder Woman comics. The guy really hasn't been a straight up villain in a while.

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