What Rogues Could Nightwing Poach From Other Heroes?

[oasis1313]

Even if I think Waid outside of comics says and does some stupid things I can't deny that the man does have a good track record writing characters somewhat similar to Nightwing.

At this point, I'd imagine no one wants to touch the dumpster fire the comic has become.

Open the book up for submissions from fans, make it a contest, tell 'em the pay is one dollar per page, and you would have dozens of hungry young geniuses dropped in your lap tomorrow.

[kjn]

I know this gets brought up from time to time, but Waid (a fairly big name in comics) wanted to write Nightwing and was denied. That is the part I think is absolutely stupid. I think creators would enjoy writing the character if editorial let them do their thing.

To be fair, there are several legitimate reasons for why a publisher would turn down a writer wanting to write a certain title. To start with that the publisher have just finished (or are finishing) negotiations with another writer for that title, but it's not public yet. Or the editor responsible for the book and the prospective writer have a poor working relationship (which can be for all sorts of reasons). Or the pitch the writer gives doesn't fit into the overall plans for the character, or the tone, or is just not that good.

[wvchemteach]

To be fair, there are several legitimate reasons for why a publisher would turn down a writer wanting to write a certain title. To start with that the publisher have just finished (or are finishing) negotiations with another writer for that title, but it's not public yet. Or the editor responsible for the book and the prospective writer have a poor working relationship (which can be for all sorts of reasons). Or the pitch the writer gives doesn't fit into the overall plans for the character, or the tone, or is just not that good.

Honestly, there is not much that couldn't be better than soap opera amnesia with muscle memory. They've essentially turned Dick... erm I mean Ric into a Gary Stu... he has all these skills, but has no adequate backstory to explain them. The only thing he should be able to do is hold up his end of the bar next to Norm and Cliff and be served by Woody.

[dropkickjake]

Even if I think Waid outside of comics says and does some stupid things I can't deny that the man does have a good track record writing characters somewhat similar to Nightwing.

At this point, I'd imagine no one wants to touch the dumpster fire the comic has become.

I wanna say that back in 2008, this was before Waid was making crazy blogposts about outbursts at movie theaters (and whatever else). At the time I believe he was a pretty hot name in comics. He even, if the quote I read was accurate (couldn't find the original source), seemed to indicate that *someone* at DC thought he was useless character but that since he was in charge that was his prerogative.

To be fair, there are several legitimate reasons for why a publisher would turn down a writer wanting to write a certain title. To start with that the publisher have just finished (or are finishing) negotiations with another writer for that title, but it's not public yet. Or the editor responsible for the book and the prospective writer have a poor working relationship (which can be for all sorts of reasons). Or the pitch the writer gives doesn't fit into the overall plans for the character, or the tone, or is just not that good.

This very well could have been it, particularly as Tomasi had just started his run at the time. Either way, my point is that Dick is a character that a "Big Name Creator" would probably enjoy writing if they believed they would be allowed to tell their story. The track record recently is terrible.

Higgins- "Interrupt your story to include Dick in all these Batman Crossover Events!"
Seeley&King- "Grayson is going great! Critics love it! End it prematurely! We need King to start working on Batman!"
Seeley- "Oh you're excited about your ideas for Dick as 'Batman's global strike force of one'? Neat. But you have to put him in Bludhaven whether you want to or not."
Percy- "Hey, we really liked your work on the dark web and want you to tell your story in the DC Universe! Which character do you want? --oh.. Nightwing? Really?? Well that seems pretty odd because you could pick like anyone, but suit yourself. Go ahead and get start-- Oh wait JK Dick has amnesia now scrap your story no one here in editorial gives a shit about it or you. Cool thanks."

[Schumiac]

I have a vision of Didio as a the Wicked Stepmother to Dick, who at every turn makes sure he either doesn't get the big name creator or does his best to sabotage whatever decent work his current writer is trying to do... Till he is gone, highly doubt anything good will happen for Dick in the comics. Thankfully he cant ruin the TV shows...

[K. Jones]

I think there's room for him to explore and have reinventions of his own rogues, from his time as Robin, Nightwing, Batman, and beyond.

But I also think he could probably poach a handful from here and there. Sportsmaster and Tigress would be neat, so on, so forth.

I'd like to see less attempts at making new spins on Vigilante as a solo hero and a dedication to Vigilante being a dark mirror / foil for Nightwing. It always seemed like Adrian Chase and those parts of New Teen Titans were, like Deathstroke, riffs on the "Nightwing" facet of the Titans team, certainly meant to make Dick rethink a lot of things. But that's not to say any follow-up Vigilante appearances where whomever has been a foil for Nightwing has ever been the coolest, best story possible in that regard.

[oasis1313]

I'm liking the idea of Roxy Rocket showing up.

[scary harpy]

I agree with this. And when you factor in other rogues like Lady Vic, Blockbuster, Torque, Brutale, etc., from the Dixon era on top of Raptor, Deathwing, Prankster (already nabbed from Metropolis) and the Judge as well as Pyg, Flamingo, and the other DickBats villains, Nightwing's got a damn solid foundation of rogues. They just need to be used and developed. The problem, as always, is consistency. The bad guys Dick has are fine on a conceptual level, but writers rarely use them.

But if you're gonna steal other villains to pad things out (which I totally support) then I can think of several villains to take from the different corners of the DCU that Dick is close to.

Roxy Rocket. If you can find a better bad girl to fill in the "Catwoman/femme fatale" slot in Dick's rogues gallery, I'll send you five dollars. Roxy is a crazy, high-flying adrenaline junkie who steals stuff mostly just because its fun to make the cops chase her. She's shown up so rarely she's basically a blank slate for Dick's writers to develop. And she's a redhead.

I'm liking the idea of Roxy Rocket showing up.

I agree. Roxy would be a great fit for Grayson's rogues.

[Ascended]

I really don't see how he could take Mammoth out without PIS.

I just don't think that Mammoth would make for a interesting villain on his own since he is really just dumb muscle, Blackbuster is imo way more interesting.

Really? Mammoth is probably the easiest of the Five to take down. He's really big, really strong, and that's it. How do you stop him? Gas. Sonics. A really slippery plastic bag put over his head. He's not fast, he's not a great fighter, he's just raw muscle. He's as vulnerable to sensory overload as anyone, he still needs to breathe, etc. And Dick is quick and agile enough to get the positioning he needs, and the gadgets he'd need aren't even things he doesn't usually carry with him. I think Dick would struggle a lot more with the others; hell Blockbuster is a hundred times smarter than Mammoth and Dick takes him on and wins.

The problem with Grant is that he comes back and becomes Dick's villain then it will be the final nail in the coffin for the Deathstroke vs Nightwing enmity. Grant will just be a dietstroke lol.

The Wrath idea is intriguing, I recall that Bedard had the Wrath's sidekick replace the original and he was sort of positioned as a Nightwing counterpart. That would definitely work, the Wrath can be the guy who cant get over his mentor while Nightwing is the guy who is his own man. The foundation for a proper rivalry is there but they need to retcon the useless Iron Man lite version of Wrath that the New 52 gave us and besides after Tynion was done with him he isn't worth salvaging.

I could definitely see Wrath being used. That's pretty solid. Grant Wilson could be good too, but I agree that would crimp the Slade-Dick rivalry. The question then becomes; with Slade treated as a solo property, would we really lose out on much? Does DC really use that rivalry these days in the first place?

I'm liking the idea of Roxy Rocket showing up.

I'm telling ya man, it'd be perfect!

[oasis1313]

Gorillas. Lots of gorillas.

[dropkickjake]

The question then becomes; with Slade treated as a solo property, would we really lose out on much? Does DC really use that rivalry these days in the first place?

While DC isn't using it right now, it's still something that has history behind it and miles of potential ahead of it. Using Grant both removes the point of Grant (can some people please stay dead? I mean it was always "Uncle Ben, Bucky, and Jason Todd" and now death means almost nothing), and also essentially gives Dick a junior version of a major villain to fight. That, to me, is the opposite direction that we need to see from Dick's rogues. We don't need more reason to consider him a junior hero who fights junior villains. Plus, anything interesting with Grant/Dick could be done with Joey or Rose just as well.

Also, I really gotta check out this Roxy Rocket. Shes from the cartoons, right?

[Ascended]

Also, I really gotta check out this Roxy Rocket. Shes from the cartoons, right?

Yeah, she was a very minor character in the DCAU, and she's had a handful of quick cameos in print. You could probably count all of her appearances in all media on your fingers and toes with a few left over.

Might be worth a Google.

[scary harpy]

When I suggested Nightwing swiping Superman’s golden age foes, Toyman definitely was included. I don’t see Schott as a threat to Kal but he could be a major threat to Nightwing.

If not there is always Kosmo Krank from The Batman and/or Fun Haus for Batman: TBaTB.

[oasis1313]

Yeah, she was a very minor character in the DCAU, and she's had a handful of quick cameos in print. You could probably count all of her appearances in all media on your fingers and toes with a few left over.

Might be worth a Google.

She sounds like fun, and "fun" is something the book is in desperate need of.

[K. Jones]

She sounds like fun, and "fun" is something the book is in desperate need of.

Hell, let Nightwing fight Baby Doll, too. And the Calendar Girl. Give him all the TAS one-offs.