What Rogues Could Nightwing Poach From Other Heroes?

[Photon Torme]

Really any Villain that Bats isn't messing with at the moment. Nightwing has just as much right to any of em really. Blackmask could be fun. Also Hugo Strange

[Godlike13]

(meant to include this in above post, my bad!)

No, without the whole "who stole Dick's fake identity?" thing it wouldn't be the same. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, either, if what the comics do is equally interesting and fun. Making big changes to such a minor character usually gets a free pass from readers as long as its quality.

But there was more to it. Red X represented a mistake, and it was a walking reflection of Robin's shame and his betrayal of his teammates trust. It would be hard for them to recreate that. Though they have introduced the idea of Dick infiltrating organizations.

[scary harpy]

Mister Esper

He fought Batman & Robin; then he fought the Teen Titans.

I don't know if it would be poaching but he could easily be considered and Grayson foe.

[kjn]

But stealing a few villains from other franchises, especially ones Dick already has ties to, works as a great way to get recognizable foes into the pages and beef up his rogues gallery quickly, which is important. If a hero is only as good as his villain, then it benefits Dick to battle some foes who are known entities even if they come from elsewhere. More people are going to take notice of Nightwing fighting HIVE or the Shaggy Man on a cover than a new villain they've never heard of before.

For that matter, I believe that doing some villain exchanges is good for the entire DC universe. A lot of heroes have so many villains that it's hard to do everyone of them justice; having another hero picking up interesting ones for a short story is a good way to combat that. It also gives a greater sense of interconnectedness to the universe, while still not tieing down the continuity and plotting too much. For a new hero it allows them to feel a part of the universe at once, and also avoid the cardboard villain cutouts that are so common.

To take one example, I think most of the villains that Wonder Woman fought in WW #29 would be excellent opponents or villains for most street-level heroes.

[Slim Shady]

Agree with the posters saying Seeley and Morrison’s villains should be a solid foundation for a good rogue gallery. Pyg, Flamingo, Raptor etc. I even like the idea of the Court of Owls lurking around here and there. Throw in Blockbuster. I kinda like that Prankster from the 52, could be a decent rogue for him.

As for poaching, a couple from Gotham would be fine. Him and Two-Face have some history, they always seem like a good match. I always thought Scarecrow but apparently this was tried recently and wasn’t good. Maybe Black Mask or Penguin.

[SiegePerilous02]

I agree with this. And when you factor in other rogues like Lady Vic, Blockbuster, Torque, Brutale, etc., from the Dixon era on top of Raptor, Deathwing, Prankster (already nabbed from Metropolis) and the Judge as well as Pyg, Flamingo, and the other DickBats villains, Nightwing's got a damn solid foundation of rogues. They just need to be used and developed. The problem, as always, is consistency. The bad guys Dick has are fine on a conceptual level, but writers rarely use them.

I know nothing about New 52 Prankster besides thinking that design is ugly as sin. Is that meant to be Oswald?

I think encountering villains for other properties that Dick still has major ties to can work well. Namely Batman's and his enemies with the Titans. The Titans titles overuse Deathstroke, Trigon, Blood, the Brotherhood of Evil, Fearsome Five, Blackfire, etc. but seeing them pop up in a solo Nightwing book might be a different story, since you can mix them into different locations with different supporting casts. Imagine the Spryal allies going against Slade? Or some of the Bat-Family going into space with him to deal with Blackfire or the Citadel? Some Superman villains beyond just Prankster would be welcome as well.

But I think these guest rogues, as usual for all properties, should be used sparingly. For his own villains, I think a lot of fans on here agree that a rogues gallery for Nightwing needs to avoid the tired "all the hero's villains are in his city with him" trope. And the likes of Raptor, the Spyral villains, Pyg, Flamingo, etc. are all naturally inclined to pop up in different locations. They can be regular faces that are not tied down to one location, much like Nightwing himself.

Another group to add to the list: the Fist of Cain. I love these guys. Their numbers are limitless, and they can pop up anywhere. Nightwing vs. a bunch of schlocky slasher villains? Sign me the hell up.

[Ascended]

I know nothing about New 52 Prankster besides thinking that design is ugly as sin. Is that meant to be Oswald?

I dont recall who was under the mask, honestly. Even if the name was familiar, it was a very different and new kind of Prankster so in my head it was a new version regardless.

He was okay. Had a semi-interesting hook. I'm in no big rush to see him return but I do think the Prankster moving to Nightwing works. You never see him in Super-books, Clark already has Toyman (they might be different, but not enough in my mind), and Dick doesn't really have a "funny" villain like the Prankster, so I'd be fine with the switch being permanent.

I think encountering villains for other properties that Dick still has major ties to can work well. Namely Batman's and his enemies with the Titans. The Titans titles overuse Deathstroke, Trigon, Blood, the Brotherhood of Evil, Fearsome Five, Blackfire, etc. but seeing them pop up in a solo Nightwing book might be a different story, since you can mix them into different locations with different supporting casts. Imagine the Spryal allies going against Slade? Or some of the Bat-Family going into space with him to deal with Blackfire or the Citadel? Some Superman villains beyond just Prankster would be welcome as well.

Speaking of the Titans villains, I'd love to see them divided up and used as solo threats. Give HIVE to Dick, give the Fearsome Five to Cyborg, Trigon and Blood to Raven of course, etc. I am beyond tired of seeing the NTT fight the same people over and over and over again in reunion titles that never capture the magic of the Wolfman era. But I think seeing Dick or Vic or Donna take down a threat that used to require the whole team would be a good way to showcase how the heroes have grown and it'd open up opportunities to develop a more personal dynamic between the hero and the villain/s and make them interesting again.

[SiegePerilous02]

He was okay. Had a semi-interesting hook. I'm in no big rush to see him return but I do think the Prankster moving to Nightwing works. You never see him in Super-books, Clark already has Toyman (they might be different, but not enough in my mind), and Dick doesn't really have a "funny" villain like the Prankster, so I'd be fine with the switch being permanent.

I suppose, but I wonder if Nightwing writers would just rather have him just go up against the Joker? At a surface level glance, the Prankster seems more similar to the Joker than he does the Toyman

Speaking of the Titans villains, I'd love to see them divided up and used as solo threats. Give HIVE to Dick, give the Fearsome Five to Cyborg, Trigon and Blood to Raven of course, etc. I am beyond tired of seeing the NTT fight the same people over and over and over again in reunion titles that never capture the magic of the Wolfman era. But I think seeing Dick or Vic or Donna take down a threat that used to require the whole team would be a good way to showcase how the heroes have grown and it'd open up opportunities to develop a more personal dynamic between the hero and the villain/s and make them interesting again.

Agreed, though maybe on occasion mix it up even further. Give the HIVE to Raven for a story, and have Nightwing tackle some demons related to Trigon, etc.
Dispersing the classic villains into stories with the solo members would also hopefully give writers the incentive to come up with brand new villains for the inevitable reunion team book.

[Schumiac]

Agree with the posters saying Seeley and Morrison’s villains should be a solid foundation for a good rogue gallery. Pyg, Flamingo, Raptor etc. I even like the idea of the Court of Owls lurking around here and there. Throw in Blockbuster. I kinda like that Prankster from the 52, could be a decent rogue for him.

As for poaching, a couple from Gotham would be fine. Him and Two-Face have some history, they always seem like a good match. I always thought Scarecrow but apparently this was tried recently and wasn’t good. Maybe Black Mask or Penguin.

Scarecrow could work under decent writers, and when the Nightwing in question is actually Dick Grayson... The "Ric Debacle" is by no means any indication of how things would work out in a proper Nightwing comic.

[dropkickjake]

But there was more to it. Red X represented a mistake, and it was a walking reflection of Robin's shame and his betrayal of his teammates trust. It would be hard for them to recreate that. Though they have introduced the idea of Dick infiltrating organizations.

Never watched this series either, but this does sound awesome. do you think that history could be imported into the comics?

[Ascended]

I suppose, but I wonder if Nightwing writers would just rather have him just go up against the Joker? At a surface level glance, the Prankster seems more similar to the Joker than he does the Toyman

Writers might prefer to use the Joker since he's a much bigger name with a bigger history in Gotham, and I'd be fine with Dick fighting the Joker on rare occasion. But I think Nightwing-Joker conflicts should be kept to a minimum. Once in a while, great. But too much and I think it'd become problematic.

Agreed, though maybe on occasion mix it up even further. Give the HIVE to Raven for a story, and have Nightwing tackle some demons related to Trigon, etc.
Dispersing the classic villains into stories with the solo members would also hopefully give writers the incentive to come up with brand new villains for the inevitable reunion team book.

Occasionally, yes, absolutely. But not too much; otherwise it starts to devalue the idea of the (former) Titans each taking a slice of the Titan rogues for their own galleries.

But I do support villain sharing, and I'd be quite fine with it happening more than we usually see in DC. No reason the Central City rogues cant try to pull a job in Metropolis or whatever, yknow?

[Jackalope89]

Never watched this series either, but this does sound awesome. do you think that history could be imported into the comics?

Problem is, is that it was based on the New Teen Titans. Something that still hasn't been re-introduced yet.

And the backstory was that Dick (as Robin) created the suit in order to trick Slade (Wilson) into thinking he was a new player and to get information on Slade. But he never told the other Titans about it, and Slade saw through it immediately. It nearly cost him his friends and his life. So, he locked the suit up in the bowels of Titans Tower. Later on, someone broke in, hacked the security measures, and made off with the suit. And up until the end of the series, despite several run ins with this new Red X, they never caught him nor figured out who was behind the mask. And while a thief, he wasn't in the trade to take over the city or anything. He was just in it for the next big score. And to taunt the Titans.

Shamelessly flirting with Starfire in front of Dick, evading and taking on the Titans as a whole several times, and even aiding Robin on a few occasions were all key parts of Red X the second.

[Aahz]

I think encountering villains for other properties that Dick still has major ties to can work well. Namely Batman's and his enemies with the Titans. The Titans titles overuse Deathstroke, Trigon, Blood, the Brotherhood of Evil, Fearsome Five, Blackfire, etc. but seeing them pop up in a solo Nightwing book might be a different story, since you can mix them into different locations with different supporting casts.

The problem with Titans villains is that they are usually made to be a thread for the entire team, and probably to powerful for Dick alone. You could maybe have hi go up against one or two members of the Brotherhood, Fearsome Five but not the entire teams, and Trigon is definitely nothing that belongs in a Nightwing solo story.

[SiegePerilous02]

The problem with Titans villains is that they are usually made to be a thread for the entire team, and probably to powerful for Dick alone. You could maybe have hi go up against one or two members of the Brotherhood, Fearsome Five but not the entire teams, and Trigon is definitely nothing that belongs in a Nightwing solo story.

Trigon himself, definitely not. Some acolytes or lower level demons in his employ are a different story. Demons being out of Dick's league would make the story more interesting, he'd have to work for his victory and be pretty beat up by the end of it, but it could work. It would allow him to branch out into a different genre.

I think Dick could take the Fearsome Five by himself, honestly. Though that might not be beneficial if the goal is to build them back up into not being lamers.

[Ascended]

The problem with Titans villains is that they are usually made to be a thread for the entire team, and probably to powerful for Dick alone. You could maybe have hi go up against one or two members of the Brotherhood, Fearsome Five but not the entire teams, and Trigon is definitely nothing that belongs in a Nightwing solo story.

I look at it as a way to show that the heroes have evolved, grown, and improved.

Most of the Titan foes were a challenge to the team when the Titans were teenagers or barely into their twenties. Splitting those rogues up for individual heroes helps show that those guys have grown beyond their old NTT limits.

Sure, you could assume that the villains have also improved with time, (and Slade certainly seems to have) but I think you would get more mileage out of using the old, well-worn Titan enemies for individual heroes now. There's nothing new to be done with the Titans fighting Titan foes, but individual heroes fighting those foes adds a different spin and allows for different narratives. You wanna really dig into a Cyborg-Jinx relationship, all Bruce-Selina style? You'll get further, faster, with more quality, if it happens in Vic's own book (if he has one at the time of course) than trying to squeeze it in around a team dynamic where half a dozen other characters need to get their panel time too.

And I personally disagree about Dick not taking on high powered foes. Just because Dick doesn't have powers doesn't mean he should stick to bank robbers and lunatics with knives; that's just limiting. And this is Dick Grayson; he was punching demons and demigods and aliens in the face when he was fifteen, spent years doing that exclusively with the Titans, and has continued to do so ever since. Of all the powerless heroes in DC, Dick might be the one with the most experience punching above his weight class. Telling us that when Dick was fifteen he could fight monsters, but at 24 he's just not capable, is insulting and makes it look like he failed to mature or learn. He's spent most of his life in a costume, and he cant handle a superhuman? Thats BS. If Batman can fight superhumans, there's absolutely zero reason why Dick can't.

Trigon is a different matter of course. He's a lord of hell. No one takes him on solo. I'm not expecting Dick to single handledly defeat villains so powerful it would take the Spectre to handle them alone.