View Poll Results: Who Is Your Favorite Black Character?

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  • John Stewart

    32 24.62%
  • Cyborg

    12 9.23%
  • Mister Terrific

    7 5.38%
  • Vixen

    28 21.54%
  • Black Manta

    3 2.31%
  • Amanda Waller

    7 5.38%
  • Kid Flash

    3 2.31%
  • Bronze Tiger

    3 2.31%
  • Static

    5 3.85%
  • Aqualad

    4 3.08%
  • Bumblebee

    2 1.54%
  • Steel (I or II)

    3 2.31%
  • Black Lightning

    10 7.69%
  • The Signal

    3 2.31%
  • Other (please specify)

    8 6.15%
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  1. #346
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    I would like for both Luke Fox and David Zavimbe to be active somewhere. I think they were both great characters who both still have a ton of potential.
    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

  2. #347
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I liked David a lot, but Luke just does not impress me on any level. He's got to be about the blandest hero in the Batcave.

    With more appearances that could change of course. I didn't care for Damian Wayne or Wallace West at first either (though really, who liked Wallace at first?) and those characters got better (well, Damian grew on me....like a fungus, but I know enjoy the obnoxious little prick). Luke Fox could end up being worthwhile too, in time.

    But gods I miss David. He was fun and I really enjoyed having a setting outside of the States.
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  3. #348
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    I feel bad that i can't get into Wallace West, Cyborg and Duke Thomas. My first intro in the DCU was the Teen Titans animated series and while I liked Cyborg he was my least favorite. My favorite heroes are the young generation, yet none of the Black teen heroes are super entertaining to me.
    This is me but for Duke and Wallace.
    Sorry to be that guy but... can I ask you guys why? Or more like .... "whats missing"?
    I have had my own ideas about why "Night Thrasher" was so cool in his time but "Cyborg" was so... uninspiring but, my first intro wasn't the cartoo.

    If its not too much to ask I mean.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    Sorry to be that guy but... can I ask you guys why? Or more like .... "whats missing"?
    I have had my own ideas about why "Night Thrasher" was so cool in his time but "Cyborg" was so... uninspiring but, my first intro wasn't the cartoo.

    If its not too much to ask I mean.
    Well for me teen superhero is what inspired me to go into art. Things like Danny Phantom, Ben 10, American Dragon:Jake Long, Static Shock and Teen Titans were huge in my childhood. Each had really unique powers and abilities.

    However when it came to the Black character they were usually sidekicks/ and or had the worse development on the shows. Cyborg was really actually cool on Teen Titans with a great personality that bounced off the others really well. But outside of that Cyborg is just a guy who gets ripped apart like paper and is very boring. I can relate to white characters (most of my favorite cartoon inspirations are white) but I won't lie and say I'm not envious of all these heroes getting cool powers and particpating in super cool events and saving the world.

    I just would like to see a 15 to 20 something young black hero making a name for themselves going on cool adventures hanging out with the DCU heroes. Static and John Stewart from JLU made me feel as though we were considered cool enough to hang with the popular white heroes. But sadly I feel like every black hero (at least males) in comics personality are so stoic and interchangeable from each other that they just kind of feel boring.
    Last edited by Shockingjustice; 11-10-2019 at 08:06 PM.

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    But sadly I feel like every black hero (at least males) in comics personality are so stoic and interchangeable from each other that they just kind of feel boring.
    I do sometimes feel like, with characters like the Black Panther, Mr. Terrific, Steel, John Stewart, Bishop, etc. there's a strange sort of overreaction to the notion of portraying an 'angry black man' stereotype on the hands of some white writers that they write black male characters as overly cerebral or tightly controlled, utterly without any sense of passion or righteous fire.

    It feels, to me, like a swing too far in the other direction, almost symbolically emasculating the characters, turning them into 'safe' unfeeling robots, in an attempt to avoid being accused of writing them as an 'angry black man' cliche, by letting them get angry or display strong emotion every now and then.

    Someone mentioned Night Thrasher upthread, and Cyborg, obviously, and both of them feel a bit more emotionally active, to me, more often allowed to pound the table or utter a (fake) cuss-word in frustration.
    Last edited by Sutekh; 11-10-2019 at 10:59 PM.

  6. #351
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    I just would like to see a 15 to 20 something young black hero making a name for themselves going on cool adventures hanging out with the DCU heroes. Static and John Stewart from JLU made me feel as though we were considered cool enough to hang with the popular white heroes. But sadly I feel like every black hero (at least males) in comics personality are so stoic and interchangeable from each other that they just kind of feel boring.
    Gotcha
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh
    It feels, to me, like a swing too far in the other direction, almost symbolically emasculating the characters, turning them into 'safe' unfeeling robots, in an attempt to avoid being accused of writing them as an 'angry black man' cliche, by letting them get angry or display strong emotion every now and then.

    Someone mentioned Night Thrasher upthread, and Cyborg, obviously, and both of them feel a bit more emotionally active, to me, more often allowed to pound the table or utter a (fake) cuss-word in frustration.
    That was me. Its funny. I don't get that from Cyborg... I'm not a big titans fan but what they do to him in the JLA is exactly what I was afraid they'd do.

    He replaced the Martian Manhunter as the Justice Leagues "Butler".
    Its hard to imagine scenario where he's the one to "pound his fist on the table" (nice turn of phrase btw) in the presence of the Supers and Bats... and while I can't see flash doing that either its not because he's the butler.

    Night Thrasher? IIRC I've seen him stand up to cap. Not to imply thats requisite or something I NEED to see to show a characters backbone, but too many of these guys seem to have it removed.

    Apologies for dragging marvel into it, but I' VAGUELY remember "Blue marvel, power up captain marvel for an attack." and think... why don't you just attack yourself?
    they made him kind of a pacifist professor type for most of the book, which again to me often feels like a butler.
    Blade, Night Thrasher types are in short supply, but I'd settle for Dave Chappel with Ninja powers at this point.
    Need more strength of character. long story short. More gravitas on the stories as well.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  7. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    That was me. Its funny. I don't get that from Cyborg... I'm not a big titans fan but what they do to him in the JLA is exactly what I was afraid they'd do.
    I felt like he had a lot more 'inner life' as a Wolfman/Perez Titan than he has as the Justice Leagues 'guy in the chair' / IT guy. He could be replaced by a talking chair, for all the 'life' he's shown in the League, sometimes.

    Apologies for dragging marvel into it, but I' VAGUELY remember "Blue marvel, power up captain marvel for an attack." and think... why don't you just attack yourself?
    Yeah, another case of a whole lot of hat, and very little cat. As Tony Stark would say, 'You're tip-toeing around. You need to *strut.*' And yet it sometimes feels, with characters like Blue Marvel or Icon, that the writers are kind of afraid of showing a really top tier black male character cutting loose.

    In that sense, I kind of miss Battalion, from Wildstorm's original Stormwatch lineup. He was unapologetically kickass, and didn't feel like he was holding back or relegated to not showing off to upstage the white folk on the page. (Since he was team leader, and one of the powerhouses. Although, yeah, uber-stoic, and the more emotionally charged / impulsive / 'angry' roles got 'safely' relegated to white folk like Flashpoint and Hellstrike...)

    And ha about Blue Marvel powering up Carol in that scene, 'cause I felt the same way every time Colossus did a 'fastball special' with Wolverine. "Or, I could throw this bus at the Sentinel, and you could find some other way to get your gimp ass to the fight, tovarisch... Here's a nickel, go buy a real super-power."

  8. #353
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    Icon and Blue Marvel not cutting loose was the point of their character arcs. They weren't written that way, by black men no less, because the writers were afraid of the angry black man stereotype (Icon's creator went on the write Hardware whose first story is called "Angry Black Man").

    As for calling Blue Marvel the "butler" is an exaggeration of his portrayal in Ultimates.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 11-11-2019 at 10:17 AM.

  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I felt like he had a lot more 'inner life' as a Wolfman/Perez Titan than he has as the Justice Leagues 'guy in the chair' / IT guy. He could be replaced by a talking chair, for all the 'life' he's shown in the League, sometimes.



    Yeah, another case of a whole lot of hat, and very little cat. As Tony Stark would say, 'You're tip-toeing around. You need to *strut.*' And yet it sometimes feels, with characters like Blue Marvel or Icon, that the writers are kind of afraid of showing a really top tier black male character cutting loose.

    In that sense, I kind of miss Battalion, from Wildstorm's original Stormwatch lineup. He was unapologetically kickass, and didn't feel like he was holding back or relegated to not showing off to upstage the white folk on the page. (Since he was team leader, and one of the powerhouses. Although, yeah, uber-stoic, and the more emotionally charged / impulsive / 'angry' roles got 'safely' relegated to white folk like Flashpoint and Hellstrike...)

    And ha about Blue Marvel powering up Carol in that scene, 'cause I felt the same way every time Colossus did a 'fastball special' with Wolverine. "Or, I could throw this bus at the Sentinel, and you could find some other way to get your gimp ass to the fight, tovarisch... Here's a nickel, go buy a real super-power."
    Unless the bus was made of adamantium I doubt it would do any real damage to the Sentinel.

  10. #355
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    There are so many bad/lame/boring black characters at DC and Marvel it isn't even funny. And oftentimes, bizarre crap that wouldn't happen to a white character happens to them. Take Cloak, for example. A black dude who is intrinsically linked to some beautiful girl and he's usually never getting any out of that. Did that happen to Hawkman? Nope. Or at least usually not. Now, I don't really know if those characters got together at some time, but I've read a number of their comics, and usually Cloak is this pathetic guy who never gets anything.

    I looked it up, though:

    blurb:
    " Cloak & Dagger are devoted to each other, but Dagger often wants more from life. While on an international case, Tandy performed with Eurocirque as Lady Light and shared a romance with a supposed stowaway on a drug boat."

    I assume that stowaway wasn't Cloak

    blurb:

    "Cloak loves her and sort of puts her on to a pedestal, but she doesn't love him that way. That changed, though, in Spider-Island: Cloak and Dagger #3, by Nick Spencer and Emma Rios.

    Dagger had been corrupted by the villainous Negative Man, and so Cloak kisses her and in the process changes their relationship to a romantic one while also switching their powers..."

    "They have since broken up, so the change did not last long, but yes, eventually Cloak and Dagger did, in fact, have a romantic relationship in the comic books, but it took roughly 30 years for them to get to that point in their respective lives. Before then, it was a platonic co-dependent relationship with Cloak having unrequited feelings for Dagger."

    Okay, so it took 30 years to happen and then just ended quickly. This is just another weird form of pussyfooting around with a black character in a fashion that most likely wouldn't happen with a white one.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Icon and Blue Marvel not cutting loose was the point of their character arcs. They weren't written that way, by black men no less, because the writers were afraid of the angry black man stereotype (Icon's creator went on the write Hardware whose first story is called "Angry Black Man").

    As for calling Blue Marvel the "butler" is an exaggeration of his portrayal in Ultimates.
    Hardware was about McDuffie leaving Marvel and that is why you saw that tone in at least the first 9 issues.

    Except for Milestone where McDuffie was in charge. Robert Washington, McDuffie and the guy who did Wise Son was the only black writers at Milestone. Matt Wayne did a lot of writing for Milestone. The diversity of writers on Static puts some companies to SHAME. 4 women & 2 LGBTQ.


    I just would like to see a 15 to 20 something young black hero making a name for themselves going on cool adventures hanging out with the DCU heroes. Static and John Stewart from JLU made me feel as though we were considered cool enough to hang with the popular white heroes. But sadly I feel like every black hero (at least males) in comics personality are so stoic and interchangeable from each other that they just kind of feel boring.
    First you need a writer willing to do that. Those guys don't seem to last long at DC.

    What you see done in comics is a reflection of what some movies and tv shows do.

    A black guy is there and he is the LEAST developed. Can you say FINN from Star Wars. Finn gets 2 comics and confirms he's asexual (neither girl wanted him) in a novel before the upcoming movie. But he's a LEAD in that movie series.
    Cyborg. Why was he even in Justice League movie? As we are learning a LOT of his footage got cut.
    Static in Young Justice."I need a girlfriend".

    Now, I don't really know if those characters got together at some time, but I've read a number of their comics, and usually Cloak is this pathetic guy who never gets anything.
    Ultimate Marvel-it's hinted at and they go to the prom together. 616-it HIGHLY HINTED at in a one shot where you saw Cloak look more human than normal. I might have that issue.


    In that sense, I kind of miss Battalion, from Wildstorm's original Stormwatch lineup. He was unapologetically kickass, and didn't feel like he was holding back or relegated to not showing off to upstage the white folk on the page. (Since he was team leader, and one of the powerhouses. Although, yeah, uber-stoic, and the more emotionally charged / impulsive / 'angry' roles got 'safely' relegated to white folk like Flashpoint and Hellstrike...)
    Yeah back on when DC did NOT own them. Where is he now? Because Michael Cray is not him.

  12. #357
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Ultimate Marvel-it's hinted at and they go to the prom together. 616-it HIGHLY HINTED at in a one shot where you saw Cloak look more human than normal. I might have that issue.
    That's the problem. The best that guy can get are hints. Compare that to Peter Parker. It's not taking Parker 30 years to get with any of the women characters around him, and there are a lot. Deborah Whitman, Felicia Hardy, Betty Brant, the list goes on and on and on. Now look at Cloak, who is intrinsically connected to a girl and STILL can't get anywhere. He's just not walking the path that a leading character in his position would typically walk, and I assume his being black probably has everything to do with that.

    I'm saying this because I assume these companies are actually trying to sell these black characters. How are you going to sell a character like Cloak when compared to a Peter Parker? Similar to Cyborg, in most cases, I think someone would actually have to be looking for a tragic loser to pick Cloak over Spider-Man. Either that, or they want to read a hero that subverts expectations by being a pining tragic dude who doesn't get anything. My thing here is that...can we at least get some black characters that steadfastly meet regular escapist superhero expectations and can stand on their own before we start using black characters to cleverly swerve people?

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    My thing here is that...can we at least get some black characters that steadfastly meet regular escapist superhero expectations and can stand on their own before we start using black characters to cleverly swerve people?

  14. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    That's the problem. The best that guy can get are hints. Compare that to Peter Parker. It's not taking Parker 30 years to get with any of the women characters around him, and there are a lot. Deborah Whitman, Felicia Hardy, Betty Brant, the list goes on and on and on. Now look at Cloak, who is intrinsically connected to a girl and STILL can't get anywhere. He's just not walking the path that a leading character in his position would typically walk, and I assume his being black probably has everything to do with that.

    I'm saying this because I assume these companies are actually trying to sell these black characters. How are you going to sell a character like Cloak when compared to a Peter Parker? Similar to Cyborg, in most cases, I think someone would actually have to be looking for a tragic loser to pick Cloak over Spider-Man. Either that, or they want to read a hero that subverts expectations by being a pining tragic dude who doesn't get anything. My thing here is that...can we at least get some black characters that steadfastly meet regular escapist superhero expectations and can stand on their own before we start using black characters to cleverly swerve people?
    Part of the problem with someone like Cloak is when he was created and then doing him in modern times in the exact same way and not seeing that his portrayal would give some modern readers the eye side. Keep in mind, Cloak was created in the 80's and at the time characters like Luke Cage and the Black Panther were appearing regularly and did have love interests. Killraven was cancelled by that time but it did feature BM/WW interracial romance. So I'm sure at the time, having him being the tragic loner was going against the norm. Of course since then, we've had scores of black male heroes who were either regulated to the background or even if they were the stars made sexless. So if they kept Cloak the stuttering sad sack in this day and age...yeah, it's kind of problematic. Having said that, in the Ultimate Universe Cloak and Dagger were dating. I having watched the TV show, but judging by the trailers at least he's not the stuttering shy guy.

  15. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Part of the problem with someone like Cloak is when he was created and then doing him in modern times in the exact same way and not seeing that his portrayal would give some modern readers the eye side. Keep in mind, Cloak was created in the 80's and at the time characters like Luke Cage and the Black Panther were appearing regularly and did have love interests. Killraven was cancelled by that time but it did feature BM/WW interracial romance. So I'm sure at the time, having him being the tragic loner was going against the norm. Of course since then, we've had scores of black male heroes who were either regulated to the background or even if they were the stars made sexless. So if they kept Cloak the stuttering sad sack in this day and age...yeah, it's kind of problematic. Having said that, in the Ultimate Universe Cloak and Dagger were dating. I having watched the TV show, but judging by the trailers at least he's not the stuttering shy guy.
    spoilers:
    In the first season he had a girlfriend whom he had sex with. The episode where it happened was praised by the Mary Sue for how it portrayed sexual consent.
    end of spoilers

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