DC Africana Appreciation

[Raijin]

Starting to think people on this thread don't like or "appreciate" black characters. Could be wrong. Doubt it lol. But I'd like to see something done with Amazing-Man. A black superhero legacy is just so rare to me.

[Sutekh]

But I'd like to see something done with Amazing-Man.

His powerset is nice and versatile, depending on what sort of properties he can take on. If it's just other solids, like metal, wood, stone or ice, then he's kind of stuck in the tank role, which is still neat, but if he can assume a liquid or gaseous state, that ups his range a bit more than the average 'tank' (who isn't necessarily able to infiltrate invisibly as air, or sneak through air vents, or operate underwater, or slip under a door as a pool of water), and if it goes as far as allowing him to assume the form of energy, such as light, or electricity, it can get crazy versatile, allowing him to possibly fly at lightspeed, or perform other amazing (pun intended) stunts.

Interestingly, this flexibility is something he shares with Vixen. She can take on the properties of a fast animal, or a strong animal, or an aquatic animal, or a flying animal, or one with a chemical or bioelectrical attack. I see this sort of 'jack of all trades, master of none' character type as a boon, especially for a creative writer, but I've noticed that some fans are hyper-aware of 'feats' and like their heroes to be the *best* at one specific niche, the fastest, or the strongest, or the smartest, and might be turned off by someone who can instead be kinda strong, or kinda fast, or kinda whatever, but will rarely ever be the best at any specific thing.

[Vampire Savior]

Starting to think people on this thread don't like or "appreciate" black characters. Could be wrong. Doubt it lol. But I'd like to see something done with Amazing-Man. A black superhero legacy is just so rare to me.

Speaking personally, I don't necessarily like or dislike black characters. I like good characters. Honestly, I do think a lot of black characters are unfortunately not good, as I said, and I am critical of them, because I think it would be great if people did better with black characters in comics in general. I chimed in with criticism regarding the character Cloak, because that's the way the discussion was going.

If you don't point out what is bad, a lot of the time, people repeat the same mistakes and don't see them, and fans just put up with that.,.I guess because they feel that's the best they're going to get now. However, having that mindset leads to very low standards for characters, I believe.

So, for example, if someone were to create a new black character, which would be cool, I think it would be great if this character avoided a lot of the problems that previous ones have become victim to. Not terribly long ago, in a "How would you handle a franchise" or something topic, I saw a poster say "Stop crippling black dudes." Another poster who wanted a crippled black man hero didn't realize that crippling black dudes was a thing.

I mention this, because I have seen people create new black characters and tread the same old ground that has hindered past black characters. Take that guy from Gen:Lock. I don't know if I want to say this is a "mistake", per se, but I'm seeing the Cyborg situation all over again. Here we have a black male protagonist leading a science fiction cartoon, something we RARELY see! Cool! Super excitement!
And guess what? He literally lost his penis and basically his body and has to live in a life support tank. The other characters have bodies and are normal. I'm not saying this can't make for interesting story potential, but...

Again, I have to say, before we start subverting expectation and cleverly swerving the audience with black guys who don't have penises as the heroes, it would be really nice if we could get more black males leading cartoons that actually AREN'T mutilated, because, you know, we don't have a lot of that going on.

[FutureWonder]

When I read the title of this thread (and before I clicked to see the results), I knew that Vixen and John Stewart would be in the lead. I just knew it. DC/WB are really sleepng on these characters' potential for becoming iconic movie properties. Vixen SHOULD BE the next female superhero (and the first black woman) to get a solo movie. She just has to!

[BlackClaw]

When I read the title of this thread (and before I clicked to see the results), I knew that Vixen and John Stewart would be in the lead. I just knew it. DC/WB are really sleepng on these characters' potential for becoming iconic movie properties. Vixen SHOULD BE the next female superhero (and the first black woman) to get a solo movie. She just has to!

If DC were smart, they would give her a movie before Marvel inevitably restores Storm to her former glory.

[Midnight_v]

Starting to think people on this thread don't like or "appreciate" black characters. Could be wrong. Doubt it lol. But I'd like to see something done with Amazing-Man. A black superhero legacy is just so rare to me.

Damn. ... Damn... I feel bad about this. Like I've been guilty of it, but its like this...

We want MORE. We want BETTER.

Moreover, its like there are so many false starts, and loss of support, and untapped potential out there, that sometimes its enraging, and sometimes It stings a bit (or id did when I was young). Why?
Well, I mean, Im invested in these characters, this medium, and supporting the company making it, only for time and time again to have something cool or interesting to just... not even go out wtih a bang, but to just
turn to ash in my mouth... or vanish completely.

So theres that...

but something else too...

A lot of us have high bars for this medium of entertainment and we 1. Want the black heroes to be every bit as Iconic as the Heroes that everyone knows word of mouth, not cause of racism but because it seems closer to real life, and a lot of the offerings need a bit of work. 2. All of on some level each of us seem to want the characters to be All things or... lets say perfect? Its like where holding these creations to a very acute lens and maybe thats not fair.

Maybe.
I was thinking can what if you came up with a list of all the common issues that take black characters out here at dc, just in this thread alone what would we end up with, lol.
But its probably not even that difficult.

Non-Maimed
Non-Derivative
Action Biased
Non-neutered
Non-sterotyped
Non-name-bound-to-blackness-or-shenngians

Hero with big stories where his isn't: Sidelined, Talked down to when the big heroes show up or FRIDGED, or summrarily killed when the big bad shows up. (Rip Darwin)

Likely the same thing for "heroine" but to me that goes without saying, and no splitting hairs about what I mean, please.


So for me, I'll try to be better about appreciating what we do have, hile asking for better creations at the same time, which is tough, because there are a lot of choices made that don't sit right and I know theres not a lot of seats at the table at DC.

[Anthony Shaw]

Starting to think people on this thread don't like or "appreciate" black characters. Could be wrong. Doubt it lol. But I'd like to see something done with Amazing-Man. A black superhero legacy is just so rare to me.

I think it is a testament to how these great characters are so underdeveloped in the comics. It does not surprise me how often these same characters develop loyal following when they appear in outside media.

[ed2962]

When I read the title of this thread (and before I clicked to see the results), I knew that Vixen and John Stewart would be in the lead. I just knew it. DC/WB are really sleepng on these characters' potential for becoming iconic movie properties. Vixen SHOULD BE the next female superhero (and the first black woman) to get a solo movie. She just has to!

They did give her that animated feature a couple of years ago and there has been live action appearances on TV.

With theatrical films though she's still up against old Hollywood prejudices.

[Agent Z]

Speaking personally, I don't necessarily like or dislike black characters. I like good characters. Honestly, I do think a lot of black characters are unfortunately not good, as I said, and I am critical of them, because I think it would be great if people did better with black characters in comics in general. I chimed in with criticism regarding the character Cloak, because that's the way the discussion was going.

If you don't point out what is bad, a lot of the time, people repeat the same mistakes and don't see them, and fans just put up with that.,.I guess because they feel that's the best they're going to get now. However, having that mindset leads to very low standards for characters, I believe.

So, for example, if someone were to create a new black character, which would be cool, I think it would be great if this character avoided a lot of the problems that previous ones have become victim to. Not terribly long ago, in a "How would you handle a franchise" or something topic, I saw a poster say "Stop crippling black dudes." Another poster who wanted a crippled black man hero didn't realize that crippling black dudes was a thing.

I mention this, because I have seen people create new black characters and tread the same old ground that has hindered past black characters. Take that guy from Gen:Lock. I don't know if I want to say this is a "mistake", per se, but I'm seeing the Cyborg situation all over again. Here we have a black male protagonist leading a science fiction cartoon, something we RARELY see! Cool! Super excitement!
And guess what? He literally lost his penis and basically his body and has to live in a life support tank. The other characters have bodies and are normal. I'm not saying this can't make for interesting story potential, but...

Again, I have to say, before we start subverting expectation and cleverly swerving the audience with black guys who don't have penises as the heroes, it would be really nice if we could get more black males leading cartoons that actually AREN'T mutilated, because, you know, we don't have a lot of that going on.

Putting aside that this doesn't make him a bad character, this problem of black men not having penises (and it's telling that this is what you choose to focus on not the fact that he also lost his family and that he had to fight an evil duplicate of himself) is nowhere near as prevalent in pop culture as you think. Of all the issues plaguing black characters this is way, way down on the list. It doesn't even affect Cyborg but that would require people to read his comics instead of parroting what is said on this board by people who hate him.

[Midnight_v]

Putting aside that this doesn't make him a bad character, this problem of black men not having penises (and it's telling that this is what you choose to focus on not the fact that he also lost his family and that he had to fight an evil duplicate of himself) is nowhere near as prevalent in pop culture as you think. Of all the issues plaguing black characters this is way, way down on the list. It doesn't even affect Cyborg but that would require people to read his comics instead of parroting what is said on this board by people who hate him.

Naw brah. He's right.

Unless he's stated "I haven't read these books" its senseless to assume he's parroting. More importantly, noticing the "neutered black guy" ... in AMERICAN fiction doesn't take rocket science.
I mean I know its easy to get on the internet and argue things like "Nu-uh" but he's not in some minority of people who notice that going on.
Its a thing that been driven by a historic curiosity and lets be honest "Fear" concerning black sexuality, from Hotentot venus to blaxplotation to now...
Where the in vogue thing for many years is to play black characters ESPECIALLY BLACK men as either luke cage sex pots or as the safe/magical negro/neutered
I mean if you don't see it that way? Hey no problem.

However, it comes off a little goofy to play it as if someone who DOES see it as lacking original thought. Especially based on the assumption of what we have or haven't read.

Aside from that... I mean the majority of superheroes loses family and have to fight an evil duplicate of themselves. . . Bizzaro, Joker, Promethueus, Sinestro, Black Adam, Ocean Master, Zoom, Venom ... ... ... anti-man...
There's nothing really to focus on there that affects black heroes thats just generic hero thing, just like having a love interest, Right Cyborg? Oh... right.

I mean thats not even an attack. I just saying people are seeing things from different angle, try not to assume someones being disingenuous or even ignorant cause they see things different with the same input.
Ymmv

EDIT:

Of all the issues plaguing black characters this is way, way down on the list.

This... I kind of agree with this though...

I don't know how far down it is, but it IS far below things like *Existing* and *getting consistent use* and other frustrating things.

[Raijin]

I think it is a testament to how these great characters are so underdeveloped in the comics. It does not surprise me how often these same characters develop loyal following when they appear in outside media.

I get that. But seeing the same arguments in a APPRECIATION thread gets old and super depressing. I know that comic book fans are a whiny bunch (it's just facts!) but sheesh. You have people on here talking about Cyborg's penis or lack of a penis. Seriously? I rather people just say they don't care for the character than to see fake woke conspiracy takes lol.

[Midnight_v]

I get that. But seeing the same arguments in a APPRECIATION thread gets old and super depressing. I know that comic book fans are a whiny bunch (it's just facts!) but sheesh. You have people on here talking about Cyborg's penis or lack of a penis. Seriously? I rather people just say they don't care for the character than to see fake woke conspiracy takes lol.

There's a lot of bleed over from the other threads, but youre mostly right about this thread prolly not being the the thread for analysis of whats wrong withe these characters, Woke Takes or sleep takes... I get the take it outside vibe.
Consider it dropped.
That being said.

Cheers to Silencer anddd... Firestorm's black half, I need more of him in the books like in the Injustice Game. Hell like in the Legends of Tomorrow. I think a book of that could be way better than the show was with the right team.

Great characters.

[Ascended]

Starting to think people on this thread don't like or "appreciate" black characters. Could be wrong. Doubt it lol. But I'd like to see something done with Amazing-Man. A black superhero legacy is just so rare to me.

Dude, for real. Amazing Man......I see potential there. Lots and lots of potential. You drop the right creators on him and I think you could easily be looking at the next Mister Miracle and "why the f*ck aren't you reading this?" title.

[skyvolt2000]

We are not going to sit here and settle for crumbs.

While everyone else gets to be as HOSTILE to creators, management & other fandoms (Inhumans & Sam Alexander say HI) to get what they want.

Questions are going to be asked no matter what.

How does Vixen with her own show and a role on another sit the pine while not one not two but three black females get books.

Silencer lasted 3 trades and she's headed to tv.
Naomi did very well and her book is a top 500 seller for DC on Amazon.
Far Sector is fetching high prices for that first issue.
What is Vixen's excuse?

Why does it take doing books NOT in mainstream DC to get decent John Stewart? Green Lantern Legacy has him as a mentor to a group of new Lanterns.

Luke Fox is on Batwoman-wouldn't NOW be a good time to release SOME his Batwing run in a $10 trade? Like Marvel does Miles.

Sure we got Batman & the Outsiders. It would be nice to see that book be more than Batman bossing POC around. Aside from that-it's doing a good job with Katanna & Jefferson.

[skyvolt2000]

Dude, for real. Amazing Man......I see potential there. Lots and lots of potential. You drop the right creators on him and I think you could easily be looking at the next Mister Miracle and "why the f*ck aren't you reading this?" title.

I think it would be SCARY to see what Keith Griffen or Mark Allred or Kyle Baker could do with Amazing Man.

From an educational standpoint you could have a field day with him. Him, Cyborg, Jason Rusch (Firestorm) & Vixen. That is a kid's show that should net you some daytime emmys.