Emma Frost: Do you want her back on the X-Men?

[spirit2011]

You think Namor ever asked for forgiveness? Beast actively declared himself to be correct and that he did nothing wrong. Black Bolt didn't ask for forgiveness.

Doing that is just what decent people do. I'm amazed you call yourself a Jean fan when she's a much better person than you give her credit for.

Jean asked Black bolt to apologize. Namor has nothing personal with Jean

I give credit for Jean being a good person, not a complete idiot. Emma just gonna screw her over again, there is not reason for her not to do it

[PrezValentine]

- Jean and Emma being together is bad because it's pandering to nostalgia.
- Jean Grey, the character who is alive due to pandering to nostalgia, going back to the very first retcon that salvaged her character bc Marvel had nostalgia for the early X-Men days, while also being the pioneer on the "death doesn't matter in comic books" trope, even though everyone points their dirty little fingers to Supes.

This is officially the best thread in CBR Forums.

[PrezValentine]

At this point, everyone should know that characterizations on Marvel are whatever editorial needs at a given moment.
If Jean and Emma are put together, Emma will be written as the greatest Jean cheerleader that ever existed and everyone will live their lives as if that's just common. They might as well write her screwing Jean, because comic characters are no more than sock puppets for writers to insert whatever they think fits their books better. Past stories be damned.

[JudicatorPrime]

Has Emma ever been to Asgard?

[spirit2011]

We all have issues with the creators over something. That doesn't justify picking a fight every chance we get when it comes to any kind of appreciation or enthusiasm of Scott or Emma on this board. We aren't the creators or the characters. We all love the X-Men. The editors and writers came up with a lot of these story lines to sell comics and many of those decisions make the X-Men look terrible in retrospect.

Fights happen and we mud sling each others characters trying to defend against editorial decisions that mostly make no sense. It's stupid and we need to be better. It's ok to hate something that happened, but let's keep our criticism pointed in the right direction.

You may not realize this but I feel a lot like you do about what happened to Jean. Nothing we do here is going to change that now though. We need to focus on the future now. That's what this thread is about.

I have my way to deal with it. It's better go after the character than creators, much more health because I don't think going after creators gonna change anything and it is bad stuff go after them;

I see you liking Emma and Scott a lot more than Jean, that seems like you want more to pair her up with Scott. it is a weird case of someone that ships Jott and likes Jean that stan for Emma

There isn't a good future if the wrongs from the past aren't righted

- Jean and Emma being together is bad because it's pandering to nostalgia.
- Jean Grey, the character who is alive due to pandering to nostalgia, going back to the very first retcon that salvaged her character bc Marvel had nostalgia for the early X-Men days, while also being the pioneer on the "death doesn't matter in comic books" trope, even though everyone points their dirty little fingers to Supes.

This is officially the best thread in CBR Forums.

1. nobody said that
2. so Jean ressurrection is because of nostalgia, but not Scott or Logan. Alright

[sungila]

A solid case can be made that every senior X-Men (and most of the junior one too) has PTSD, including Charles. I'm sure that had something to do with his team selection choices. The ANAD team seems chosen more for their offensive power than to "rescue" them from their lives which I think was the theme of the o5. Kurt's an exception but he's about the only one. Interestingly only a few really show how damaged they are. With Emma it's tough to say how much was pre-existing. Her childhood didn't seem to be good.

Nocenti was quoted as saying that story planning sessions started with the premise of "how can we torture the X-Men?". It's more than an addiction. It's the basis for the books and it's that torture that causes the X-Men to react by closing ranks. The family aspect of the books owes itself to this writing approach.

As for Emma escaping, I think the only thing she truly needs to escape from is her self-loathing. That would break the character though so I'm not in favor of it. There's that addiction again.

There's something else though that's problematic. It's codenames and the logic of war. Perpetuating self sacrifice for an ideal that is closed and non-generative that is wasteful and staged (think of Kurt dying for Hope) is a problem. Not allowing characters like Emma to upset and redefine what self sacrifice could mean, as a much more personal and exclusively individual experience, explicitly leaves the fans to piece together and sustain the continuity of what's desperately missing from X-Books now...not because of what was once there, but because what could be there is abandoned...to go it alone...to be alone, though, requires other people, not a team really, just everybody else.

I do think that nearly every character with a long history has achieved ends in which all form is by natural law fluid. Gender, expression, origin, personality, power set, purpose, self concept - living through lifetimes in one ideology is impossible. We don't need multiverses or alternate universes. But real individual character agency. Emma always eventually gets me thinking about the end of the X-Men. Not the end of Mutants...no Wanda...not the end of suffering. The end of this concept. I don't know if I believe in universal myth...but I'm sure Xavier's dream isn't endless and immemorial. I think it ended already.

Soap is part of what makes a great X-Men tale, as much as science fiction or social issues! And Emma can be the Queen of soap when she wants!
But what I think she provides is another point of view, more cynical. The X-Men need this balance between idealists like Jean and more pragmatic ones like Emma, it's part of what makes the X-Men great: diversity!

YES! I actually would love there to be no team book. Events can be the new 'team' books. Characters stories have so much more potential and immediate importance to today's world. I don't know if it's possible for there to be a flagship experience in this 2019...let alone a flagship title.

The diversity of expression is natural for a small character driven cast.

It's been said that the X-Men have been made into cogs of a machine. So what happens when the cogs gain cognition and remember who they are and don't want to be cogs anymore?

I think Emma and really, all the X-Men would fight to free themselves from that. If given the ability to experience it.

I also think this is why I kinda sorta have high hopes for Age of X-Man. I wasn't expecting it to be so...kinda good.

Exactly. The problem is that the vast majority of X-Men fall into Jean's way of thinking. That's ok because they are supposed to be heroic and self-sacrificing. Emma does provide some balance, all by herself but she is one of the very few that has enough influence to actually effect decision making.When's she gone so's the balance. I guess we'll see where Scott falls post-resurrection but I highly doubt he'll be as pragmatic going forward. We still have Illyana I suppose but I'm not sure how much she's listened to. She'd actually have to consistently do something beside's act as a taxi service for that. Betsy's another option. See her killing of Mags as an example. I'm not sure Marvel's going to allow her to keep that edge going forward.

There is a feeling that chaos would serve the X-Men well right now. Unpredictability. Instability. And not from an outside pressure. Cataclysmic ending! But maybe not so HUGE...more like huge


Did Bendis try to get there or inch there or hint to us or at least show some sympathy with Xavier's will?

I understand and I've seen through the year this rather "sadistic" approach and its results. While I think the X-Men always have this need of closing ranks in front of hatred, too much gloom breaks empathy. The X-Men need to have something to lose so that the reader can feel the sense of threat.
Without hope, there's no despair and those last years bouncing from Decimation to Schism to AVX, IVX, and DOX have made the life of the X-Men so miserable that I think we need a little light to still care.

Yes, and I'm not sure a bunch of hand held LED lights will do.

Excalibur was such an incredibly important book when it came out. Things were so dark and damned and then there's this quirky weird other title...not snark...but silly and sentimental and imperfect.

So much of today's 'light' in X-Books isn't really light at all, it's constant media feedback. Boom Boom checking what people think about her being like Boom Boom. And I like Tabitha. But I would really rather read her actually doing this than thinking about whatever X-Force is now.

Emma, Illyana...there are a few characters who really should be, maybe Tabatha too...they just really should be done by now, with what they seem bored by, and numb to...I don't know if the creators intentionally reveal that boredom...seems like it...but maybe it's unavoidable. A consequence of that machine doing what it does...manufacturing the machine.

Creators as cogs like characters as cogs? Maybe....

Regardless, in the shallow end another option for depth is finally stepping ashore.

[DianaWw]

Jean asked Black bolt to apologize. Namor has nothing personal with Jean

I give credit for Jean being a good person, not a complete idiot. Emma just gonna screw her over again, there is not reason for her not to do it

Then she should ask Emma to apologize.

[PsychoEFrost]

Then she should ask Emma to apologize.

Not to make Spirit's case for her, but Emma wouldn't. She has said sorry to someone exactly once in her entire written history, and that was to Scott. She has expressed contrition for what she has done, but the actual act of apologizing isn't something she does.

[DianaWw]

Not to make Spirit's case for her, but Emma wouldn't. She has said sorry to someone exactly once in her entire written history, and that was to Scott. She has expressed contrition for what she has done, but the actual act of apologizing isn't something she does.

Well then Emma already said sorry, what more is there.
I like the conversation Logan had with Emma once that if she wanted forgiveness she had to forgive herself first.

[spirit2011]

Well then Emma already said sorry, what more is there.
I like the conversation Logan had with Emma once that if she wanted forgiveness she had to forgive herself first.

Sorry for the affair? Anyway she has to apologize to Jean

[DianaWw]

Sorry for the affair? Anyway she has to apologize to Jean

You contradict your self so much. Then Black bolt has to apologize to Cyclops not Jean, he didn't do nothing to Jean.

Emma doesn't need to apologize for falling inlove and trying to help a broken man who needed help and was being ignore. She might have done it in a wrong way but you never apologize for trying to help the one you love. Not everything revolves around Jean like you want it too. If that character has done no ill to Jean even if he has killed hundreds he is a better person that a cheater and the woman who he cheated on. If this is the kind of character Jean is the please kill her off for another 20 years. This character sounds selfish and is all about their pain and now and then the pain of other but cross her and you become unforgiven.

[TheCape]

Lol, this just sort devolved into pissing contest between Jean and Emma.

[PsychoEFrost]

Lol, this just sort devolved into pissing contest between Jean and Emma.

Some people get upset when the idea of Emma being anything less than a heartless monster get passed around. I can't imagine dedicating so much of my time to hating a fictional character, but how they spend their time is up to them.

[DianaWw]

Lol, this just sort devolved into pissing contest between Jean and Emma.

There some characteristics that I find off putting. One being, the person who is all about 'me, me, me'. Who can only look at other's pain if she/he can make it about them self. * look I care about this and that too, look at me everyone I am caring.* selfish to no end. They sit there telling you their problem but as soon as is your turn to speak they walk away unless there is someone else in the room and says poor you to out stage the other person they try to cheer you up but make it about them self at the end.
I hope this is not Jean Gray's character personality.

This is the personality Morrison gave to Jean. Please take into account I began reading Morrison. For me it was untill it involve Jean's feelings did she show awareness of her husband. Many Jott fans say otherwise because they know her before that. For someone like me if this is her personality moving forward in the books then she most likely will become a toxic character and wish her to stay away from Scott forever.

The good thing is I read x men blue and Jeen didn't show this personality. I read x men red but her character felt empty though it show she care it was as if she was not there. Scott's fan have told me it might have been something X did, they are not sure. As for Emma i like her just the way she is a anti-hero. She can join the x men every now and then.

[TheCape]

Some people get upset when the idea of Emma being anything less than a heartless monster get passed around. I can't imagine dedicating so much of my time to hating a fictional character, but how they spend their time is up to them.

I can get being annoyed with certain characthers, i personally avoid Daken and Superior Spider-Man like they were the plague, but going into hate is pretty unhealthy. There is also other cases when i don't dislike then because i pretty much don't know anything about then, like Nate Grey.