Emma Frost: Do you want her back on the X-Men?

[spirit2011]

Emma Frost mentored Jeen, and now that the o5 went back to the past, Jean remembers being trained by Emma Frost. Emma was professional enough to put aside her differences with the adult Jean and train Jeen. In the Jean Grey book, we see Ghost Jean and adult Emma again be professional and work together.

Jean actually died, came back in Endsong, went back to the White Hot Room/died again and came back for good in Phoenix Resurrection to a very different world. She's in a different place.

Jeen also saw the bad side of Emma. Ghost Jean had to accept Emma help to save Jeen from her own plan.

[PsychoEFrost]

Jeen also saw the bad side of Emma. Ghost Jean had to accept Emma help to save Jeen from her own plan.

What? Emma helped Jean save Jeen from Jean's plan. Emma had nothing to do with it.

[RachelGrey]

Sounds like speculation at this point. I'm not sure why they'd wait so long unless they're just planning for her to show up in one issue. Still better than nothing. It's probably for the best to get the Emma and Scott reunion out of the way before we have to deal with the fallout from the end of AoXM anyway.

This begs the question of what state the HFC could be in at that time. The club has long standing ties to very visible mutants like Emma, Erik and the Braddocks. That seems problematic given the political climate we see in Uncanny 11.

It's possible that Emma is hiding mutants from the world governments and trying to keep low. I was re-reading that issue of Uncanny where she was still in a coma and she possessed Iceman. She mentioned to Xavier that she had long been hiding mutants from Xavier, Magneto, and one of the organizations trying to imprison/experiment on mutants. She admitted that her own philosophy was too selfish because she had been teaching her students to just protect themselves and not worry about anyone else, and in some cases just teaching them to stay out of the Xavier/Magneto conflict as much as possible. It was interesting because she admitted to Charles that she had made a serious mistake because even though she didn't agree with his "dream" because she felt that humans would always try to hurt mutants, she realized that Xavier was right to teach mutants to fight together and support each other. Emma didn't agree with Magneto's way of doing things because in her eyes he just puts a giant target on all the mutants, particularly the mutants who can't fight for themselves.

In the face of what is going on, I think Emma might be trying to use her resources to hide as many mutants as possible and trying to keep herself from getting caught. A mutant underground railroad of some kind. In that event she would not have showed up to openly support Scott when he called everyone to come stand with him, because Emma would think she is doing important work her own way by hiding mutants from the world governments or helping people get asylum in safe countries.

For all of Emma's faults, protecting other mutants has been her strongest drive over all these years. When she joined the X-Men she decided to work alongside the people that bought into Xavier's dream even though she was never sold on that dream herself. Emma is a fatalist she thinks it's inevitable that the humans will try to destroy mutants, but she doesn't want to be Magneto who keeps trying to escalate the conflict every time he shows up. Emma prefers to work in secret and help mutants stay out of conflicts as much as possible. The thing that sets Emma apart from someone like Wolverine is that she doesn't believe that humans can be innocent, she believes they are all racist toward mutants and human lives are expendable if they get in the way of protecting mutants. She just doesn't do the "acts of terrorism" thing, because she feels that just makes the problems worse for all mutants.

[FUBAR007]

Emma Frost mentored Jeen, and now that the o5 went back to the past, Jean remembers being trained by Emma Frost. Emma was professional enough to put aside her differences with the adult Jean and train Jeen.

Jeen wasn't an emotional threat at that point. Emma and Scott's romantic relationship was already over.

In the Jean Grey book, we see Ghost Jean and adult Emma again be professional and work together.

Grudgingly. Because circumstances necessitated it. My point isn't that Jean and Emma can't ever be in the same room together without killing each other; it's that they can't credibly be friends or even neutral co-workers on any kind of regular basis. There's too much history there.

Jean actually died, came back in Endsong, went back to the White Hot Room/died again and came back for good in Phoenix Resurrection to a very different world. She's in a different place.

None of which changes the fact that Emma was her husband's mistress and, as such, helped destroy her marriage. The slate isn't clean. The history is still there.

[FUBAR007]

Emma has never wanted to be Jean.

Yeah. Right.

Since Morrison rebooted her in 2001, Emma's envy and resentment of Jean has been a defining characteristic of her personality. Even after she took Jean's place--as Scott's lover, as his partner and counselor, as a co-leader of the X-Men--it was always there. Jean is the kind, compassionate "good girl" beloved by the other X-Men that Emma wishes she was, but knows she isn't and can't be. To make matters worse, Jean outclasses Emma as a psi by an order of magnitude. And, while Scott is the love of Emma's life (so far), Jean never stopped being the love of Scott's life.

Emma's entire character arc from 2001 through Bendis's run was about her taking Jean's place and assuming Jean's roles. In other words, it was about her trying to be Jean. (Similar somewhat to Magneto's arc in the mid-80s through 1991 where he tried to be Xavier.)

Thankfully, recent developments have moved Emma away from that with her once again charting her own course. Which is absolutely for the best.

[PsychoEFrost]

Yeah. Right.

Since Morrison rebooted her in 2001, Emma's envy and resentment of Jean has been a defining characteristic of her personality. Even after she took Jean's place--as Scott's lover, as his partner and counselor, as a co-leader of the X-Men--it was always there. Jean is the kind, compassionate "good girl" beloved by the other X-Men that Emma wishes she was, but knows she isn't and can't be. To make matters worse, Jean outclasses Emma as a psi by an order of magnitude. And, while Scott is the love of Emma's life (so far), Jean never stopped being the love of Scott's life.

Emma's entire character arc from 2001 through Bendis's run was about her taking Jean's place and assuming Jean's roles. In other words, it was about her trying to be Jean. (Similar somewhat to Magneto's arc in the mid-80s through 1991 where he tried to be Xavier.)

Thankfully, recent developments have moved Emma away from that with her once again charting her own course. Which is absolutely for the best.

I would disagree with the power assessment. Emma is weaker than Jean, but the difference isn't that large.

[spirit2011]

What? Emma helped Jean save Jeen from Jean's plan. Emma had nothing to do with it.

Jean's own plan

[Havok83]

Emma Frost mentored Jeen, and now that the o5 went back to the past, Jean remembers being trained by Emma Frost. Emma was professional enough to put aside her differences with the adult Jean and train Jeen. In the Jean Grey book, we see Ghost Jean and adult Emma again be professional and work together.

Jean actually died, came back in Endsong, went back to the White Hot Room/died again and came back for good in Phoenix Resurrection to a very different world. She's in a different place.

Emma didnt like teen Jean when she first showed up and only tolerated her bc she realized she wasnt a threat in a way that the adult is. Emma's "professionalism" wasn't all that altruistic. She admitted to hating teen Jean in Blue when Jean defeated her and removed her hold from Scott as the underlying resentment and jealousy she has for Jean is still there even if she does suppress it

[Ulfhammer]

It's possible that Emma is hiding mutants from the world governments and trying to keep low. I was re-reading that issue of Uncanny where she was still in a coma and she possessed Iceman. She mentioned to Xavier that she had long been hiding mutants from Xavier, Magneto, and one of the organizations trying to imprison/experiment on mutants. She admitted that her own philosophy was too selfish because she had been teaching her students to just protect themselves and not worry about anyone else, and in some cases just teaching them to stay out of the Xavier/Magneto conflict as much as possible. It was interesting because she admitted to Charles that she had made a serious mistake because even though she didn't agree with his "dream" because she felt that humans would always try to hurt mutants, she realized that Xavier was right to teach mutants to fight together and support each other. Emma didn't agree with Magneto's way of doing things because in her eyes he just puts a giant target on all the mutants, particularly the mutants who can't fight for themselves.

For all of Emma's faults, protecting other mutants has been her strongest drive over all these years. When she joined the X-Men she decided to work alongside the people that bought into Xavier's dream even though she was never sold on that dream herself. Emma is a fatalist she thinks it's inevitable that the humans will try to destroy mutants, but she doesn't want to be Magneto who keeps trying to escalate the conflict every time he shows up. Emma prefers to work in secret and help mutants stay out of conflicts as much as possible. The thing that sets Emma apart from someone like Wolverine is that she doesn't believe that humans can be innocent, she believes they are all racist toward mutants and human lives are expendable if they get in the way of protecting mutants. She just doesn't do the "acts of terrorism" thing, because she feels that just makes the problems worse for all mutants.

I think Emma used to prefer to fly under the radar but that has changed significantly in the last several years. Emma fully supported Scott mutant revolution, which was highly visible. She broadcast "Scott's" accusations about the Inhuman's worldwide in DoX, and ruled New Tian. All actions that painted targets on mutants. I think Emma tends to operate more with the needs of the moment. If she went back to a teaching position I think we'd see a return to a more low profile methodology, but her days of mutant anonymity are over.

In the face of what is going on, I think Emma might be trying to use her resources to hide as many mutants as possible and trying to keep herself from getting caught. A mutant underground railroad of some kind. In that event she would not have showed up to openly support Scott when he called everyone to come stand with him, because Emma would think she is doing important work her own way by hiding mutants from the world governments or helping people get asylum in safe countries.

No way. If Emma was in a position to respond she would have. Her history on this point is clear. That's what made me wonder if she was incapacitated or captured already.

[Ulfhammer]

Emma didnt like teen Jean when she first showed up and only tolerated her bc she realized she wasnt a threat in a way that the adult is. Emma's "professionalism" was all that altruistic. She admitted to hating teen Jean in Blue when Jean defeated her and removed her hold from Scott as the underlying resentment and jealousy she has for Jean is still there even if she does suppress it

Yes. I think that some people are making too much of the gains Jeen and Emma made. Sure, Jeen was grudgingly willing to work with Emma and they did eventually find some common ground. I think a big part of that was that Jeen hadn't actually experienced the fallout of her failing marriage with Scott emotionally. She knew about it intellectually but that's not the same as living through it. So though I do hope that Jean and Emma can work together in the future, I don't think we can take the way Jeen and Emma interacted as an indicator of how it's going to play out.

[Ulfhammer]

Yeah. Right.

Since Morrison rebooted her in 2001, Emma's envy and resentment of Jean has been a defining characteristic of her personality. Even after she took Jean's place--as Scott's lover, as his partner and counselor, as a co-leader of the X-Men--it was always there. Jean is the kind, compassionate "good girl" beloved by the other X-Men that Emma wishes she was, but knows she isn't and can't be. To make matters worse, Jean outclasses Emma as a psi by an order of magnitude. And, while Scott is the love of Emma's life (so far), Jean never stopped being the love of Scott's life.

Emma's entire character arc from 2001 through Bendis's run was about her taking Jean's place and assuming Jean's roles. In other words, it was about her trying to be Jean. (Similar somewhat to Magneto's arc in the mid-80s through 1991 where he tried to be Xavier.)

Thankfully, recent developments have moved Emma away from that with her once again charting her own course. Which is absolutely for the best.

I agree. I think that's very clear in the text pretty much from the start and it's been consistent all the way through since Morrison. I've actually found it to be one of the compelling aspects of her character, that she so clearly recognizes that what she wants, she can never have, not because she can't possess it, but because she believes she isn't worthy of it. Makes some sense why she and Scott understood each other.

I don't agree on power levels though. An order of magnitude could be considered 10X Emma's strength. I don't buy that for a second.

As for Emma moving away from chasing Jean's shadow, I guess we'll just have to see. She's pretty much lost everything in the last five years or so and to top it off, Jean is back. Does that make it better or worse?

[TheDeadSpace]

Yes. I think that some people are making too much of the gains Jeen and Emma made. Sure, Jeen was grudgingly willing to work with Emma and they did eventually find some common ground. I think a big part of that was that Jeen hadn't actually experienced the fallout of her failing marriage with Scott emotionally. She knew about it intellectually but that's not the same as living through it. So though I do hope that Jean and Emma can work together in the future, I don't think we can take the way Jeen and Emma interacted as an indicator of how it's going to play out.

It also takes into consideration whether or not Jeen's experiences are going to be mentioned/referenced. It's too early to tell, but I'm not sure that much can be used from their earlier lives apart from vague references. In fact, her conversation with Nate could have included a moment for her to relate with her Xorn self as she saw herself fall from grace in an alternate future.

[Havok83]

It also takes into consideration whether or not Jeen's experiences are going to be mentioned/referenced. It's too early to tell, but I'm not sure that much can be used from their earlier lives apart from vague references. In fact, her conversation with Nate could have included a moment for her to relate with her Xorn self as she saw herself fall from grace in an alternate future.

She mentioned her time as Phoenix in that conversation which was more iconic and relevant IMO. I dont think the Xorna stuff needed to be brought up as well

[Ulfhammer]

It also takes into consideration whether or not Jeen's experiences are going to be mentioned/referenced. It's too early to tell, but I'm not sure that much can be used from their earlier lives apart from vague references. In fact, her conversation with Nate could have included a moment for her to relate with her Xorn self as she saw herself fall from grace in an alternate future.

Was this a conversation from Extermination? It's not ringing a bell.

[TheDeadSpace]

Was this a conversation from Extermination? It's not ringing a bell.

Uncanny x-men #10, when Jean talks with X-Man Nate.