Sins Past vs. One More Day.

[Lee]

This is really just sad. You have no argument so you cling to this literalness in a vain attempt to discredit me.

So when you said it threw the entire Marvel Universe under the bus, you didn't really mean it?

[Russ840]

I actually like Sins Past for the most part. I like how it portrayed Gwen because I find that the story made her seem more human, to me, instead of this grand person that she is made out to be when she never was.

I Loved that Norman still was f**king with Peter without even being on the scene.

Some of the story elements are a bit silly, i.e. accelerate growth and what not but..... it’s comics.

OMD on the other hand. I abhor it.

[comicscollector]

I think people mistake they not enjoying a story as to how that negative opinion equals the importance of that story in the marvel universe.i did not liked secret wars 2 way back but it was not because of my opinion i thought the marvel universe was damaged because of Secret Wars 2.

[Kevinroc]

I think people mistake they not enjoying a story as to how that negative opinion equals the importance of that story in the marvel universe.i did not liked secret wars 2 way back but it was not because of my opinion i thought the marvel universe was damaged because of Secret Wars 2.

Spider-Man taught the Beyonder how to poop in Secret Wars 2. That's better than anything we got in One More Day.

[comicscollector]

Spider-Man taught the Beyonder how to poop in Secret Wars 2. That's better than anything we got in One More Day.

Eh.One funny scene did not made Secret Wars 2 a event that i enjoyed reading way back.As to Omd even with the Microverse level of retcon it had (with the post One Moment in Time continuity) was waaay better that Secret Wars 2.Just the art in Omd is way better that was the art in the main Secret Wars 2 limited series.

[Kevinroc]

Eh.One funny scene did not made Secret Wars 2 a event that i enjoyed reading way back.As to Omd even with the Microverse level of retcon it had (with the post One Moment in Time continuity) was waaay better that Secret Wars 2.Just the art in Omd is way better that was the art in the main Secret Wars 2 limited series.

Since the consensus is clearly stating that OMD is worse than Sins Past, we have dovetailed to how bad OMD actually is. It is now challenging Secret Wars II on the Terrible Marvel Stories scale!

How far will it go? You decide!

[kingaliencracker]

I voted Sins Past.

One More Day was bad, but what's resulted from it are some of the best Spider-Man stories and the best direction for the character in 20 years prior to OMD. We can argue that Marvel could have accomplished that without OMD, but they didn't feel that way and if they felt they needed OMD to get Spider-Man to where he is now, so be it. I also think fan talk of Spider-Man being dead to them as a result of the deal with Mephisto or that Peter should be in Hell...to me that's hyperbole at its extreme.

Sins Past...look, Gwen Stacy died a good 15 years prior to my getting into comic books, so I don't have an affinity for Gwen the way some fans do. Having said that, I think taking one of the most famous characters in Spider-Man's history, who's death was already controversial to begin with and is one of the text book examples of "Women in Refrigerators", and having her have a retroactive affair with Peter's greatest enemies? And having children with him to boot? And she's not around to defend or otherwise redeem herself? That just seems very wrong to me.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

One More Day was bad, but what's resulted from it are some of the best Spider-Man stories and the best direction for the character in 20 years prior to OMD.

Firstly, the period right after OMD is Brand New Day, which more or less ended with One Moment in Time and when Slott wrote Big Time. BND was 2008-2011. So if you want to make a case that OMD directly led to good stories you have to look at the four year gap before Slott's solo run really "began". And BND sucks. It has very few defenders and even one of the writers, Marc Guggenheim pointed out that practically nothing he put there has stuck.

For instance, if you compare the period of the Marriage 1987-1994, you have immediately Kraven's Last Hunt, the Venom arc, Carnage, JMD's run on Spectacular Spider-Man, "The Child Within--Best of Enemies", Todd Macfarlane's early issues. And in that case the marriage did cause a number of those stories. JMD has said multiple times that Kraven's Last Hunt wouldn't have had the emotional impact it does without the marriage. Whereas the first years after OMD produced not one real decent story, and the story that closed that, OMIT, is as-bad-if-not-worse than OMD.

Secondly, someone turning a sow's ear into a silk purse doesn't vindicate early messes. Roger Stern's Hobgoblin Lives did tie up and explain the knot of messes left behind in the Hobgoblin Mystery which had a ridiculous conclusion in the 80s. Likewise, there are a number of good stories with the Green Goblin after his resurrection but that does not, by itself, justify the original context and story in which he returned. JMS also wrote a number of issues with Aunt May and great ones but that doesn't vindicate the asinine and inexcusably bad story in which she was resurrected by Byrne/Mackie at the behest of Bob Harras.

I also think fan talk of Spider-Man being dead to them as a result of the deal with Mephisto or that Peter should be in Hell...to me that's hyperbole at its extreme.

If we are to treat the characters as a serial creation with a running continuity than certain norms and rules, and basic stuff needs to be observed. Marvel decided with OMD that the status-quo from #192-292 that most had forgotten and its original audience voted with their wallet to move away from, is now the norm. Most of what happened Post OMD is basically repeating in some cases almost beat-by-beat the stuff that happened in that era, was done far more succinctly and far better written and with immeasurably superior artwork.

OMD utterly shattered and destroyed the essence and core of Spider-Man and replaced it with endless spinning of wheels and generally mediocre comics with the momentary above-average execution here and there.

[Miles To Go]

I voted Sins Past.

One More Day was bad, but what's resulted from it are some of the best Spider-Man stories and the best direction for the character in 20 years prior to OMD

That's entirely subjective. There was a lot of hate directed at BND prior to Slott taking over, and even Slott's biggest fans acknowledge he wore out his welcome around 2014-2017.

Arguably, the biggest success story of the era was Superior, and that didn't involve Peter much at all, just his body and occupation. And even I think Superior is a worse story than OMD.

"Women in Refrigerators"

Oh for god's sake, are we still using that terminology? It's 2019.

[Inversed]

I've said alot about how bad OMD is, but I do think the BND era still had some pretty great stories. Some I can think of right off the top of my head are:
Peter Parker, Paparazzi
New Ways To Die
Flashbacks
Unscheduled Stop
Platonic
Character Assassination
American Son
Last Legs
Power To The People
Rage Of The Rhino
Stages Of Grief
Origin Of The Species

[Lee]

Since the consensus is clearly stating that OMD is worse than Sins Past

Where was a consensus clearly stated? The current vote tally is 31 to 22, which is too close to be considered a general, unified opinion among the group. The differences in opinion have continued within the topic discussion itself, as displayed in the post that followed yours.

Firstly, the period right after OMD is Brand New Day, which more or less ended with One Moment in Time and when Slott wrote Big Time. BND was 2008-2011. So if you want to make a case that OMD directly led to good stories you have to look at the four year gap before Slott's solo run really "began". And BND sucks. It has very few defenders and even one of the writers, Marc Guggenheim pointed out that practically nothing he put there has stuck.

From the context of their post, it seems that kingaliencracker was expressing their personal enjoyment of the stories. There are many aspects of character and storytelling that can be discussed and debated, that can be quantified to some degree, but personal enjoyment is one that exists entirely in the realm of subjectivity. As such, I don't think telling kingaliencracker that the thing they like "sucks" will sway their opinion.

There was a lot of hate directed at BND prior to Slott taking over, and even Slott's biggest critics acknowledge he wore out his welcome around 2014-2017.

Why would it be a surprise that someone's biggest critics would be the most critical?

[Russ840]

For me, everything since OMD, up until Spencer’s first issue, is awful.

I won’t say there are not any stories in that period that I had some fun with.

It just never felt like I was reading about the Peter Parker that I had featured from ASM 1 (vol 1) up until OMD, the character I love.

[Miles To Go]

Why would it be a surprise that someone's biggest critics would be the most critical?

Sorry, I meant "fans", got my wires crossed

[Miles To Go]

Peter Parker, Paparazzi

Origin Of The Species

[comicscollector]

Brand New Day was great.A fun era in the Spider-Man stories that brought back the classic larger Suporting Cast of characters and the classsic Spider-Man villains that Spider-Man stories had.
And had new suporting characters and cool new villains.The variety that was due the team of writers and artist´s kept the stories a must read.It was for sure a Brand New Day in the stories that moved the stories forward to a Status Quo that had not been present in the stories for twenty years in Amazing Spider-Man.