Sins Past vs. One More Day.

[Inversed]

One More Day is worse because, like people have said, its not a story, its just an editorial mandate used as their excuse to semi-reboot Spider-Man. Sins Past is a bad idea, but at least there is a story to it. Plus, its easily disposable and essentially been retconned out of existence, so that doesn't make it sting as much.

[Celgress]

One More Day is worse because, like people have said, its not a story, its just an editorial mandate used as their excuse to semi-reboot Spider-Man....

Pretty much this.

[theoneandonly]

I wonder if omd would have worked if Peter and his allies had been shown to be unable to save her because it was her time to pass over and no one could alter her destiny without messing with the whole aspect of time/space continuum leaving Peter no option expect for a devil who is ready to rend reality asunder and refashion it which the others were unable or unwilling to do.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I wonder if omd would have worked if Peter and his allies had been shown to be unable to save her because it was her time to pass over and no one could alter her destiny without messing with the whole aspect of time/space continuum leaving Peter no option expect for a devil who is ready to rend reality asunder and refashion it which the others were unable or unwilling to do.

That's exactly what happened. In Sensational Spider-Man #40, "The Book of Peter", the-One-Above-All tells Peter that its Aunt May's time, and then he shows Peter a vision...beach filled with thousands and thousans of people, all of them lives he has saved, and that he should think about that when he worries about his Aunt.

It's Aunt May's time, Peter has saved many lives and so on.

To me JMS' original idea for OMD which wasn't fully mapped out before that public bickering between him and Quesada happened, sounded better. I have said it before if they brought back Gwen after OMD, it would still suck as a story but I would have felt better because at least one failure is being annulled with another major failure (which is on top of that a humiliation and degradation) put in place.

JMS' original idea according to them would have changed continuity too much, but as JMS pointed out, OMD did that anyway. There's absolutely no way every story Pre-OMD happened and nothing was changed as Quesada and others insist and claim. As JMS said:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.co...c=18701.0;wap2

And that's the part I had a real problem with, maybe the single biggest problem. There's this notion that magic fixes everything. It doesn't. "It's magic, we don't have to explain it." Well, actually, yes, you do. Magic has to have rules. And this is clearly not just a case of one spell making everybody forget he's Spidey...suddenly you're bringing back the dead, undoing wounds, erasing records, reinstating web shooters, on and on and on.

What I wanted to do was to make one small change to history, a tiny thing, whose ripples we could control to only touch what editorial wanted to touch, making changes we could explain logically. I worked for weeks to come up with a timeline that would leave every other bit of continuity in place. It was rigorous, and as logical as I could make it. In the end of OMD as published, Harry is alive and he's always been alive as far as the characters know...so how is that different than he was alive the whole time?

It made no sense to me.

Still doesn't. It's sloppy. It violates every rule of writing fiction of the fantastic that I and every other SF/Fantasy writer knows you can't violate. It's fantasy 101.

It troubled me that it's MJ and not Peter who is the one to actively make the decision.

I'd originally written the first issue of OMD to take place directly after May gets shot, and in fact turned in the first script directly after she gets nailed. Editorial decided to build in a block of issues for One More Day...meaning May would be in that bed for almost a *year* which I thought was just too long to make work.

And yes, I wanted to retcon the Gwen twins out of continuity, which was something I always assumed I could do at the end of my run. I wasn't allowed to do this, and yes, it pissed me off. I felt I was left holding the bag for something I wanted to get rid of, and taking the rap for a writing lapse that I had never committed. Why this aspect was not brought up in the other interview, you'd have to ask Joe.

Mainly, the book was rewritten in the editorial offices to a degree that the words weren't mine any longer, to a certain degree in three, and massively in four. If the work represents me, I leave the name there and take the rap; if it doesn't, then that's a different situation. There's just not much of my work there, especially once you get to the last dong of midnight...everything after that was written by editorial.

Whether my work is good or it sucks, it's mine. What came out of the end of OMD wasn't, hence my desire to omit the writing credit. Joe graciously offered to share it on the last issue. I think that helped. Credit where credit is due.

[theoneandonly]

That's exactly what happened. In Sensational Spider-Man #40, "The Book of Peter", the-One-Above-All tells Peter that its Aunt May's time, and then he shows Peter a vision...beach filled with thousands and thousans of people, all of them lives he has saved, and that he should think about that when he worries about his Aunt.

It's Aunt May's time, Peter has saved many lives and so on.

To me JMS' original idea for OMD which wasn't fully mapped out before that public bickering between him and Quesada happened, sounded better. I have said it before if they brought back Gwen after OMD, it would still suck as a story but I would have felt better because at least one failure is being annulled with another major failure (which is on top of that a humiliation and degradation) put in place.

JMS' original idea according to them would have changed continuity too much, but as JMS pointed out, OMD did that anyway. There's absolutely no way every story Pre-OMD happened and nothing was changed as Quesada and others insist and claim. As JMS said:

I know I was being sarcastic.

[Sacred Knight]

Sins Past was worse. Because I look at it from a point of view of, outside of retcons, can the situation be repaired and gotten over moving forward? For Gwen it can't. Because she's a perma-dead entity. It destroyed her legacy and characterization and she's longer around for it to possibly be repaired in the present day. Peter and M.J. are still around and always will be, their relationship can always be rekindled anew and move forward.

If retcons/reversals are on the table, the situation changes, but to date they haven't been and don't look like they will be, so this is the approach I take.

[Chubistian]

I dislike the concept behind both stories but Sins Past actually hits some emotional sensitivities, in a positive way, in me. Peter doing his best to ensure that the last remains of Gwen escape Osborn’s all consuming shadow speaks a lot about what makes the character such an unique hero and Mike Deodato Jr’s art is pretty good. There are other things I do like about this story. A nitpick I have is that Peter never had sex with Gwen, I just don’t buy it, especially since their romance by the time the story was published had to transpire in the 90s or 00s, and they seemed as a pretty sexually active couple, and we have seen that Peter isn’t someone who waits for marriage or has something against one night stand, etc

Meanwhile, OMD came off as a pretty irrelevant story on itself that has to rely too much in what cames after the story. If we take out the reboot angle, it’s a comic that whatever potential it had dies with the last issue. Mephisto and his reason are cliche, forced and cheesy. So yeah, I dislike OMD a lot more, though as stories I don’t hate either

[Snoop Dogg]

sin's past is already out of continuity because of clone conspiracy

you know what still isn't

the hobgoblin affair

[Miles To Go]

sin's past is already out of continuity because of clone conspiracy

No it isn't.

The only reason it was never brought up in "The Night I Died" was because Ron outright refused to draw it if it was mentioned.

[Snoop Dogg]

No it isn't.

The only reason it was never brought up in "The Night I Died" was because Ron outright refused to draw it if it was mentioned.

If I do a story about cannibalistic fascist turkeys invading San Francisco, and the very next year do a sequel where they invade New York, but refuse to bring up the original, do they exist in the same continuity?

"Yeah I’m not dealing with that… I’m never going to deal with Sins Past."

[The Kid]

If I do a story about cannibalistic fascist turkeys invading San Francisco, and the very next year do a sequel where they invade New York, but refuse to bring up the original, do they exist in the same continuity?

"Yeah I’m not dealing with that… I’m never going to deal with Sins Past."

Yep we should all just agree that after Secret Wars, Sins Past never happened. That's my headcannon at least

[Celgress]

Yep we should all just agree that after Secret Wars, Sins Past never happened. That's my headcannon at least

If only we could ignore OMD as easily. *sigh*

[Inversed]

No it isn't.

The only reason it was never brought up in "The Night I Died" was because Ron outright refused to draw it if it was mentioned.

Also Slott himself also said that he, and pretty much everyone else at Marvel, were acting as if the story never happened, which is why it never even gets referenced. Like, Avengers #200 still gets referenced, but not Sins Past, that shows how terrible and inconsequential of an idea it ended up being.

The other thing about One More Day is, there could've been a good story. If you're so adamant about no divorcing and you HAVE to go with something magical/devil/whatever, then they should've made the story ABOUT Peter's relationship with his Aunt and wife. That's basically what JMS' entire run was focused on, so it would've felt bittersweet to have a story about what they both mean to him, and what all 3 mean to each other, before everything changes. An expanded version of "To Have And To Hold", but instead just a whole lot of empty space until the end.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

There are other things I do like about this story. A nitpick I have is that Peter never had sex with Gwen, I just don’t buy it, especially since their romance by the time the story was published had to transpire in the 90s or 00s, and they seemed as a pretty sexually active couple, and we have seen that Peter isn’t someone who waits for marriage or has something against one night stand, etc

Canonically, the scene that most readers consider the moment that Peter lost his virginity in-page is at the end of ASM#149, where he and Mary Jane at the end of the First Clone Saga decide to prove their love to another.
https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-mary-...ck-clone-saga/

In the entire Lee-Romita era, you hardly ever saw Peter or Gwen on dates. And their relationship had moments where they were chaperoned by...get this I s--t you not...Miles Warren. Gwen was also written as very prudish like apparently in 103, the first of the Savage Land stories, she and Peter talk about seeing the Swedish movie I am Curious Yellow which was a big deal in that time for its copious nudity and sex...Gwen says that they can see that, but Peter has to cover her eyes for the naughty stuff. About the one bit where you can sort of assume something might have happened between panels is between the last drug issues #98 and #99. Maybe something happened there who knows. Spider-Man: Blue by Jeph Loeb suggests something at the end of the last issue but again...that issue is a flashback and it makes numerous continuity errors.

The problem with sliding time scale is that the earlier stories and issues and everything in them did happen...and you have to thread the needle carefully and be wary about inserting modern attitudes back then. Stan Lee and others wanted Peter to be a stand-up proper guy, the boy who isn't interested in girls for just one thing, so it was quite delicately done. This isn't just the good old days. Like Bendis when he wrote USM Annual #3, where Ultimate Peter and MJ discuss going all the way, he had to be careful and have them decide to wait it out since it doesn't quite do to have Peter and MJ behave like real teenagers...

And Peter and Gwen never having consummated their love kind of makes that romance more poignant and tragic. And it's logical, in that entire period, Peter was often sick, paranoid, worried and stressed...seriously read #87--100 and #119-121 and you will find Peter constantly antsy and worried about his health...he often disappeared from Gwen. And given the fact that Peter was worried about protecting his secret...I think he'd be worried about letting slip stuff during pillow-talk or talking in sleep. Then Gwen lost her father and was in grief, so that might put a damper to get her "in the mood".

[Chubistian]

Oh, I still have some holes to fill in the Peter/Gwen romance, since I’m collecting the Epic Collections that collect Stan Lee’s stories as they come out, so currently, though I have read some issues here and there, I’m waiting for the trades that are going to have the issues with Gwen and Peter as a couple.

I can’t speak about Peter losing his virginity (didn’t know there was an issue that many fans agreed as the particular moment it happened). So my nitpick is more than anything else born of the place where Sins Past puts Peter and Gwen. One of the problems I see about writing 616 Gwen nowadays is that she’s such a product of the 60’s, and has been death for so long, that she cames out as an anachronism.

I know 60’s Pete probably didn’t have sex with Betty, nor with Gwen, or better put, it doesn’t matter for those stories nor did it to Stan Lee, Steve Ditko and Romita Sr, but if you make Peter and Gwen to be dating in the late 90’s, especially since he was in college and given the long time they went out, I kinda asume they had sex tough not explicitly reveal. It isn’t something that I care about, but Sins Past stating that it didn’t happen kinda of took me off balance, besides, it was a cheap way of getting rid of the chance that maybe Peter was the father